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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Duck-Stew on December 28, 2012, 01:36:18 PM

Title: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 28, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
As if my post-count and log-in time isn't enough of a give-a-way that I'm a salt-newb, read on as I'm sure there will be several comments and questions which will cement that fact.  :-D

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8491/8284418571_f7716b6375_c.jpg)

Here's the skinny thus-far:

2003 999s frame
2004 749R motor
2005 999s air-box, injectors & throttle bodies
2002 GSXR600 front-end
2006 CBR125 front wheel (Canada/Euro bike with a 17"x1.85" front wheel)
Ducati Multistrada 620 swingarm w/4.5" wheel

Parts not shown in my mock-up photo:
Termignoni full system exhaust pipes
Radiator
Suzuki front-fender
Vortex clip-ons
Ducati 749/999 race fairings for modification

Planning on running a Good-Year 22x2.5x17 top fuel dragster front-runner
Nitrous Oxide injection eventually (likely 50hp)

I'm leaning towards a 150/70ZR17 rear tire as that'll be good (according to the rule-book) to 200mph. What do I do for a rear tire after I surpass that speed?  (Unlikely this year, but hey...  it's a concern.)

Wheelbase will be increased, likely through raking the steering angle some and lengthening the swingarm the remainder.

Fuel tank will reside under my butt, and although the photo shows an partially disconnected sub-frame, it was laid down to show more where it will finally reside.  (Haven't cut & welded the lower mounting points yet)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: superleggera on December 28, 2012, 11:55:44 PM
about time you started posting here! (the more Ducati's the better!)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Koncretekid on December 29, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
Good start.  I want your front wheel, way too small for you.  I've been looking for front and rear CBR125 wheels for my project, but there don't seem to be any parts on the market, probably because so many are still being raced up here.  Hard to find narrow cast 17" wheels.

One problem I see with the Ducati is the difficulty in getting a low profile.  But check out Jason Omar's Team Sodium Distortion's Buell for a real "out of the box" solution.
Tom
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on December 31, 2012, 09:35:49 AM
Good start.  I want your front wheel, way too small for you.  I've been looking for front and rear CBR125 wheels for my project, but there don't seem to be any parts on the market, probably because so many are still being raced up here.  Hard to find narrow cast 17" wheels.

One problem I see with the Ducati is the difficulty in getting a low profile.  But check out Jason Omar's Team Sodium Distortion's Buell for a real "out of the box" solution.
Tom

Tom, I checked out the Sodium Distortion Buell project.  Cool build, but that engine and rider configuration won't work in a Modified chassis class. 

As far as bike overall height goes, I'm not done lowering this thing.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on January 28, 2013, 11:59:25 AM
Got some clothes on my high-speed gal this weekend...  So far, the height needs to come up ~ 3/8 - 1/2" and the wheelbase needs to go longer by 3".  The clip-ons in the 1st pic are just attached to the fork.  2nd pic shows a 3 1/2" (yet to be built) extension to the front which will help keep my hands within the width of the fairing as well as provide a more comfortable position.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8494/8424483332_aa22e93164_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8464/8424491432_2f7b0dbc2c_c.jpg)

(Yes, the hat to the back is worth 3mph...)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Peter Jack on January 28, 2013, 12:14:48 PM
It's definitely got the right look D-S. Keep up the good work and we'll hope to see you on the salt.  :cheers: :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on January 28, 2013, 12:25:46 PM
Thanks Pete.  I spent a *LOT* of time on this forum searching through pictures as well as other 'net research before pulling the trigger on this project.

I've also got a good friend who has ran 200+ on an APS bike as a resource.  He's invaluable!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: fredvance on January 28, 2013, 02:07:20 PM
A question and a suggestion or two. Why do you want to want to extend the wheelbase? Are you going to put some ballast on the back? You could improve the aero on the back a lot and stay within the mps rules.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on January 28, 2013, 03:13:11 PM
I have some components to place below the seat and I'll be running ballast also.  Plus, if I want to go back to this wheelbase, the swingarm is cheap $.

Aero improvements on the back are coming, and I'm not done with the aero yet, just wanted to get some progress pics up from this weekend.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: fredvance on January 28, 2013, 03:20:09 PM
Lookes like you have a good start and good plans!! Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: SaltPeter on January 29, 2013, 06:56:51 PM
Cool build  :cheers:

I found that sitting on the Bike in the Tuck position without all of your Protective Gear on can give you a false impression.

Put all your Gear on and then Tuck down and take the picture, this will give you a better idea about your relationship between you, the fuel tank and the Fairing/Seat combo.

I was surprised by the difference.

Pete
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on January 30, 2013, 09:05:44 AM
Thanks Pete.  I hadn't considered that.  I do have a photo w/my helmet on, but I couldn't get my head very low b/c of a frame bracket that's yet to be cut out of the way.

I think I'll have time this weekend to get out there in my helmet & suit.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 05, 2013, 01:44:45 PM
Just got the team logo & mascot done by BDG Design (Thanks Jerry!).  My daughter drew the mascot in like 10 minutes.  :mrgreen:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8332/8447007445_f35ea3f092_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8352/8447007807_fc7504bbc7_c.jpg)



TECHNICAL UPDATE:  Swingarm is out being lengthened...  Should be back by Thursday/Friday.  8-)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Queeziryder on February 05, 2013, 03:16:51 PM
A big thumbs up to your daughter  :-D

V cool  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 05, 2013, 04:57:02 PM
A big thumbs up to your daughter  :-D

V cool  :mrgreen:

Thanks Q!  I'll be sure to pass that along.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stainless1 on February 05, 2013, 05:29:17 PM
Be sure to let us know when shirts are ready for viewing, can I pick one up at the salt, running short, only have about a 1000 or so.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 05, 2013, 06:58:36 PM
Got it Stainless! 
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: saltwheels262 on February 05, 2013, 08:09:13 PM
nice logo. Good work.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 05, 2013, 10:55:22 PM
My Triumph has a three inch extension on the swing arm and it works very good.  It really helps on the street, maybe more than on the salt.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 07, 2013, 02:03:43 PM
Bodywork colors & graphics (thus far...)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8246/8454188396_463b20bae8_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stan Back on February 07, 2013, 05:56:26 PM
Might leave some room for your class.  Is 33 your number?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 07, 2013, 06:00:41 PM
Might leave some room for your class.  Is 33 your number?

Uh, no.  My photoshop'er just grabbed a number and also left off 'MPS 750-F' class designation as well...  My # is yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: DND on February 07, 2013, 08:32:36 PM
Hi Duck

That really looks nice, like a Duc factory team rig.

My friend bought one of those Raymond Rousch road racers they made for the racers across the pond years ago and sent 3 here for sale and he ran it on the street, i built a neat little plate holder and tail light and for a 2 cyl it sure got with the program.

The workmanship on that bike was first class, trick castings etc plus the Desmo deal

Don
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: lsrjunkie on February 07, 2013, 09:08:04 PM
Darn good looking scooter Duck! Keep it up man!  :cheers: Love the photoshop teaser pic!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stan Back on February 08, 2013, 12:49:03 PM
You can get your number now -- check the Rule Book for info.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: superleggera on February 08, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
Were the graphics inspired by the old Dustbin streamlined gran prix racers like this?  (or the silver/red 125cc world record endurance iteration?)

(http://www.teamhyperliner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GranPrixDustbin.png)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 08, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
Here's the main inspiration:

(http://www.dreaminginitalian.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/IMG_0500.jpg)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on February 08, 2013, 07:57:12 PM
Is that an artists rendering or have you built the fairing?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on February 19, 2013, 05:12:52 PM
Is that an artists rendering or have you built the fairing?

Fairings were sponsored by CRC fairings out of the Netherlands.  First rate parts!  Much better quality than SharkSkinz brand.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 04, 2013, 01:23:27 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8527942011_06c02fb64a_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8527942045_b0222144f1_c.jpg)

Got a chance to build my subframe this weekend and get it outside for some photos.  Rear-sets are next and I've got to find a 749/999 fuel tank.  (Amongst ~1,000 other things...)

The red wheel stand is a 'Bike-Grab' supplied to us from www.lifts-and-stands.com (http://www.lifts-and-stands.com)

Works great!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: 55chevr on March 04, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Really like the seat section.   Teh bike looks low and that's good.   Especially like the T shirt in first week of March when it is 30 here in NY.


Joe
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 04, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
Thanks Joe.  We've had a warming spell here in NM this past week.  Even rode my Ducati SS into work today.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: fredvance on March 04, 2013, 05:26:17 PM
Hey Joe and all my friends up there in the frozen wastelands up north, My wife and I just got back from a 130 mile ride, in tshirts. About 85dg!! :cheers:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Koncretekid on March 04, 2013, 05:52:20 PM
Just a few ideas.  Looking at your profile, I would try putting the bottom of your helmet down on the airbox, supported by a hunk of rubber.  If your fairing is cut too high, cut it down in front for a good view of the horizon.  Also, looks like you could make more forward  reaching handlebars to get your arms forward and down.  Make a small gas tank and put it in the seat pod behind you. Getting your head down a couple of inches will gain a few mph or more.  Put your rear sets as far back as allowed (6" from rear axle at BUB, staying in M class). This is not a road race.
Tom
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: 55chevr on March 04, 2013, 06:44:56 PM
Fred - Stew - When I look at Slim's photo of the UP snow I feel better but still cold ... When I ride now I need the plug in heated suit.


Joe
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: lsrjunkie on March 04, 2013, 06:53:35 PM
Bike looks great Duck! Keep it up!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 12, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
Got the tank installed, but it's too dang big... 

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8552365218_6c0a02dd32_c.jpg)

Fortunately for me, it's Ducati's last steel tank used on a superbike so I can cut & weld it as needed.  Here's the projected first cut (just above the blue tape):

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8370/8552365292_cfdd18b7e1_c.jpg)

From there, a new bottom plate will need to be water-jet cut and welded in.  Going to run a later model Ducati in-tank pump as they're cheaper than the 749/999 units & flow more fuel.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: RansomT on March 12, 2013, 07:55:52 PM
I really can't tell from the picture of the tank about your cut, but your minimum capacity must be 5L to stay in MPS. (going by my ECTA rule book, I can't find my SCTA book to double check)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 12, 2013, 08:00:21 PM
Yup, it's a 5L minimum.  Stock tank is 4.2 gallons and I'm planning on cutting 40-50% out of it.

Bike may run alcohol next season...
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on March 12, 2013, 09:24:42 PM
Duck, it is good to have your pegs back like Tom says.  When you do this the weight of your torso will be forward and it will need some support.  Some bikes like a light touch on the bars so it is hard to use them to hold you up.  Resting your chin on the tank will make your vision go goofy on a rough track.  Sometimes the best place to support yourself is with your chest on the tank and your chin an inch or so above it.  It is good to ride it in a race before you decide to cut things up.   
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 13, 2013, 01:04:34 AM
Cut the crap outta the tank tonight but I can now get my chest much further forward and I feel comfortably supported. 

Mediocre cell phone pic tomorrow.

I'll be right around 1.6-1.7 gallons of fuel after I re-make the rear 1/2 of this shell into a tank.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on March 13, 2013, 12:21:22 PM
Sick project. I am also working on my areo for MPS while trying to keep legal. I will be starting to build my gas tank soon.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 13, 2013, 01:10:31 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8554225259_aced189514_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8554225093_460276a375_c.jpg)

I may slice the tank side to side above the vertical head and lengthen it back towards the seat for add'l fuel capacity and the ability to add the pump flange behind the head.  I may not...

Good luck w/the project gsx-rboy750! Hope to see you out on the salt!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on March 13, 2013, 03:11:41 PM
Are you dropping the back and making it fit the vee in the frame?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 13, 2013, 04:12:35 PM
Are you dropping the back and making it fit the vee in the frame?

Probably not.  Just a rear-ward expansion of the tank back to the subframe attachment point.  That's like 3-4".
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on March 13, 2013, 04:24:04 PM
I'm drooling here. I wish I could get my hands on that tank project. :-D
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: r1kurt on March 16, 2013, 05:21:26 PM
Nice project, any specific mph goals to achieve ?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 16, 2013, 06:34:46 PM
Nice project, any specific mph goals to achieve ?

Record is 197.xxx on Fuel. We're shooting for 200.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on March 17, 2013, 08:55:35 AM
target horsepower? How long is the course? I have only ever done the mile. I know bonneville has mulitple length courses.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 17, 2013, 12:33:29 PM
target horsepower? How long is the course? I have only ever done the mile. I know bonneville has mulitple length courses.

Target HP? Enough.

Bonneville has a short course which I'm lead to understand is 3 miles (most all bikes run here) & a long course which is sometimes as long as 7 miles.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on March 17, 2013, 01:48:56 PM
I like your new avatar. How's the tank coming along?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on March 17, 2013, 02:00:14 PM
I was just curious what length you were going to travel and what target hp you had for 200mph.
As i said i only ran the mile but feel i needed alot of HP to hit 200. I assume i have better traction on tamrac as opposed to salt but then obisouly course length would be your advantage.  :cheers: i guess if you hit 200 youll know you had "enough".  
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 17, 2013, 03:57:00 PM
I was just curious what length you were going to travel and what target hp you had for 200mph.
As i said i only ran the mile but feel i needed alot of HP to hit 200. I assume i have better traction on tamrac as opposed to salt but then obisouly course length would be your advantage.  :cheers: i guess if you hit 200 youll know you had "enough". 

Sorry if my first reply came across as crass, but there are lots of variables when you're running for max speed.

Check out the aero / weight / HP calculator here:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html)

A lot depends on the coefficient of drag and the frontal area of your bike.

Since the 749R motor comes w/forged pistons & titanium rods, it's kinda already built for nitrous oxide injection.  We calculate (by our frontal area and a conservative guesstimation of Cd) that we will need a 50hp shot to achieve our mph goals.  But, if we need more then we can change the nitrous & fuel jets to get more HP out of the motor (we estimate that we could inject about 75HP of nitrous w/o catastrophic issues).  We've already changed over to the wide ratio transmission as well as the wide ratio primary gears inside the motor. Now, with OE available sprockets, we should be able to achieve upwards of 220mph just going by gearing calculations & max engine rpm.

Not started on the tank yet tauruck...  Perhaps this week!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 17, 2013, 03:59:21 PM
This is our first year @ this and our first bike build...

We're planning on sticking to the 3-mile "short course"...  We should have enough cooling system and nitrous oxide capacity for that long of a run.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on March 18, 2013, 10:30:51 AM
I figure the duci makes 110-130hp rough guess. I looked at that calculator along time ago but until i acutally do some areo i think my bike depends on hp. I will actually run with a front fender this year and a good ine at that. I also am doing a 1.5-2 gallon tank and front rotors and cermaic bearings. Hopefully by the second meet in Sept i have the areo body done. I do think in Retro spec areo is the best money after the low hanging engine fruit. I would run a nitrous wizard setup if i were gassin.
I am gearing for 230 and hoping for 220.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 18, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
The 749R is good for 120-130rwhp in prepped trim.  We have a few tricks up our sleeve to push a few more out of it. 

We're already hooked up w/a progressive nitrous controller to keep traction as the juice 'comes on'.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: jo maoma on March 18, 2013, 04:32:09 PM
This is our first year @ this and our first bike build...

We're planning on sticking to the 3-mile "short course"...  We should have enough cooling system and nitrous oxide capacity for that long of a run.

i've always wondered, what if your second timed mile is actually faster
than your third on the short course. could you use the second mile time
for a record or is there another reason for timing the second...
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 18, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
Well, I'm not positive of the rules on the newly-set up short course (measured second mile, that is), but I'm pretty sure it'll be run like the miles on the long course.  That is, if you qualify in both (or all three) measured miles -- you can choose which one you want to select for your back up run the next morning.  So - it could be the faster second mile if you wanted it to, even though you also did well enough in the third mile.  There's one drawback, though -- maybe.  And that's the fact that if you decide you'll use the speed from the second mile when you back up -- you've got to get your record speed in the second mile. 

That is, the two runs (qualifier and return) must qualify in the same relative measured mile (even if your return is on the long course -- you'd STILL have to get your record speed in the second mile.

I think.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stainless1 on March 18, 2013, 08:36:52 PM
SSS, minor correction... not commas, or grammar...
The record is set with the fastest average of the relative miles.  You cannot choose a lower record so your partner can set a record too.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on March 18, 2013, 09:23:37 PM
The 749R is good for 120-130rwhp in prepped trim.  We have a few tricks up our sleeve to push a few more out of it. 

We're already hooked up w/a progressive nitrous controller to keep traction as the juice 'comes on'.
Looks and sound like a well though build. All I have to say is data log data log data log. I am watching your build as I want to eventually go to the salt.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 19, 2013, 08:54:31 AM
Okay, Stainless.  I thought. . .but never mind.  I was close, right? :roll:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 27, 2013, 04:33:31 PM
Been cleaning up the garage and work bench in prep of the 749R motor coming out for a rebuild.  PJ's Triumph / Ducati has generously sponsored the motor rebuild parts (a large portion of them) and they're on order due to be in this friday.

My goal is to get the motor out and look inside this weekend.  Hopefully that'll happen.   :-P

Got a deal ($free.99) on a slightly fried 999 wiring harness to use some of the specific pigtails from.

Also got the wiring harness figured out.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on March 27, 2013, 06:50:52 PM
The 749R is a special bike to me. I had one (#211) for all of 15 minutes. Long story. I can do most things but wiring no. It's a frightening prospect. Knowing the Italians yours must be a little complicated. I'm watching this build.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stan Back on March 27, 2013, 07:48:29 PM
Do they still use those exposed ceramic fuses?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 28, 2013, 12:53:03 AM
Do they still use those exposed ceramic fuses?

They dropped use of those in the late 80's... Thankfully!!!  ATC/ATO style now.

The 749R is a special bike to me. I had one (#211) for all of 15 minutes. Long story. I can do most things but wiring no. It's a frightening prospect. Knowing the Italians yours must be a little complicated. I'm watching this build.

Been customizing Ducati Monsters for years, so nothing on them intimidates me much... 

Hope to get a $ influx next week which will help the project along nicely...
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on March 28, 2013, 02:10:44 AM
Maybe a $$$$ would be mo better. If you've got enough money for racing it's still not enough. :-D
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 28, 2013, 09:13:34 AM
It's a constant trade-off (battle?) of time versus $$$...

But I'm sure there are a few here who share that sentiment.  :-P

It's becomming an option that the bike may not make El Mirage in May.  Dammit.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Mobacken Racing on March 28, 2013, 12:49:35 PM
I know that feeling, the good thing about it is that we are forced to learn to do things ourselves instead of just paying someone to do it for us. :-)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 08, 2013, 09:44:45 AM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8630645137_538b69e8bd_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8630645183_90d1ff4c37_c.jpg)

Got some free time (pure luxury these days) this weekend and pulled the motor out for it's rebuild.  In the 2nd shot, you can see the casting designation of the 749R head as well as the 6mm titanium valves.  :evil:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: tauruck on April 08, 2013, 11:56:27 AM
The day will still come when a 749R lives im my living room. :-D I love those Dukes.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 08, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
Also FYI:  I found out this weekend through some internet research that certain 749R street motors were known to destroy themselves even if street ridden under the factory rev limiter.

I find this disturbing...  Am anxious/nervous to see what the lower end looks like.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 11, 2013, 06:37:43 PM
No pictures on this update...  BUT, I did order up the SpeedHut gauges and a MicroSquirt ECU today.

260mph GPS speedo 2 5/8" face
12K rpm tachometer 2 5/8" face
120'-260'F coolant temp 2 5/8" face
and a small shift-light

I was really happy to know that SpeedHut was able to make the 260kph speedo into a 260mph speedo for free.  :-D
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 12, 2013, 12:20:12 AM
Does the Ducati have a plain bearing or rolling element lower end?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 12, 2013, 07:35:23 AM
Main bearings are roller, rods are plain.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 12, 2013, 07:54:41 PM
My advice was about isolated failures of an otherwise good design with roller bearings on the rod big end.  None will apply here.  What do the experts say?
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 13, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...  The guys who were racing the 749R's and holding redline to 11K rpm would go all season on a motor.  11.5K rpm netted a rebuild every few races and if you got it up around 12-13K rpm, it would maybe last a single race.

There's a guy in Australia running a turbo'd 749R drag bike making 234rwhp (unknown boost levels and type of fuel) and all his dyno graphs end abruptly @ 11000rpm...  With good reason.

It's a known weakness this rpm cap. I just think some nitrous on a fresh rebuild ought to net me at least 2 seasons on the motor making ~175hp.  After that, we have larger aspirations.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 13, 2013, 12:53:07 PM
If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 13, 2013, 11:46:00 PM
Duck, turbocharging has proven to be the most reliable way to make LSR style power in the modern Triumph Bonneville twins.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Stainless1 on April 14, 2013, 12:04:53 AM
If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex

Actually the collection is Kawasaki pistons... and rods.  If you are thinking about N20, search the site, there is a lot of info posted.  Don't assume the kit you buy will work, most are designed for drag racers, test your system and know the mixture you are using. 
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 14, 2013, 12:46:18 AM
Duck, turbocharging has proven to be the most reliable way to make LSR style power in the modern Triumph Bonneville twins.

Turbo? Yeah, that's on tap for 2014...

If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex

Actually the collection is Kawasaki pistons... and rods.  If you are thinking about N20, search the site, there is a lot of info posted.  Don't assume the kit you buy will work, most are designed for drag racers, test your system and know the mixture you are using. 

Key points! Thank you...  We have a lot to learn that hopefully won't lead to a collection of Ducati shrapnel!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: stay`tee on April 14, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...


How much cfm do thay flow, ?? 
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 14, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...

How much cfm do thay flow, ??  

I'll be getting them flowed before & after porting so #'s are coming soon.
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 14, 2013, 11:45:34 AM
Duck, all engines have their limits.  11,000 rpm on a 750 twin with that bore stroke ratio is a darn strong motor.  Keep in mind that oversquare engines have large pistons with correspondingly increased inertial loads when they reverse direction.

The engine needs to last through the passes to get a license, probably a bunch more to get everything sorted, and a down and return run.  Also, the salt can be slippery and you will lose traction or the gearing can be miscalculated, and the engine will be running at higher than intended rpm.  The LSR state of tune is less than for drag motors for these reasons.

A way of approaching this is to develop a good data collection system and accrue some baseline information from actual use with a milder tune, such as engine inspections from periodic teardowns, and exhaust gas and cyl head temperatures.  Then, incrementally tune for more power with an eye on the data you are collecting.  Also, master the turbo and the nitrous separately before you mix the two.

The numbers you have for HP are pretty high and might not be realistic for LSR.  Also, personal safety worries and concern for others at the event, especially the insurance we all pay, means it is best to approach the limits from the safe side.  It might take five or more years to get all of the potential out of that engine.   
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on April 24, 2013, 11:27:29 AM
on the turbo note just getting ready for a LSR meet and dynoed a stock 750 GSXR(with a turbo) at 240 and 103 on 8lbs and a 100% stock motor on some exotic ethanol.
I highly dought I could have broken 200rwhp with spray without breaking something and then at WOT for 20-30seconds.

When you do turbo I recommend doing a big intercooler, nice turbo and ethanol or methanol for LSRing.
I wish you had more pics.


Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on April 24, 2013, 11:54:07 AM
I wish I had more pics!  LOL...

Been a bit slow going of late.  Made some progress, but I haven't been 'full on' it for a spell now.

SpeedHut gauges are set to arrive today.  Got a Brembo radial brake master for the rear caliper.  Been setting up the chassis and adapting the front axle for the Honda wheel...

That's about all this time.  :|
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: joea on April 24, 2013, 12:01:17 PM
in your research...not sure if you have talked to William at:

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/BonnevilleProjects.html

great source of expert info.....

as it relates to building and racing ducatis in various forms, including nitromethane, turbo etc
but namely....bonneville.....
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: mergatroyd on May 06, 2013, 02:34:08 AM
This is going to be fun...  :mrgreen:

I'm the thick-skinned, hubris-ridden side of this jobbie and I'm reading all of your old posts for information and ideas on the tune for this monster  :-P... I think we'll be fast.  Flames to me... props to Duck-Stew.

 :-D

Did I mention this is going to be fun?  I don't know what the story is behind the :mrgreen: smiley, but I like it. 

Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on May 06, 2013, 09:49:59 AM
A little team clarification: mergatroyd is a member of Team UnorthoDUX and has been charged with the tuning and software aspects.

He's also an SCTA member and will be riding the "UnorthoDUCK #1".  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on May 08, 2013, 10:17:19 AM
Well, the verdict finally came in yesterday:  The 749R crankshaft we have is usable.  ::Whew!::  Trying to find a replacement that wasn't damaged was proving difficult.  The connecting rod bearings were within 100 miles of catastrophic failure when the motor came apart though (which would've taken out the crank & the titanium connecting rods as well...).

Our pistons and engine cases, however, are not fine.  So, some low-mileage used pistons were located out of London and we managed to score a pair of *BRAND NEW* engine cases off Flea-bay.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/8720752780_705837042c_z.jpg)


The project continues...  :evil:

in your research...not sure if you have talked to William at:

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/BonnevilleProjects.html

great source of expert info.....

as it relates to building and racing ducatis in various forms, including nitromethane, turbo etc
but namely....bonneville.....

I have spoken to William.  We had a good converstaion.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on May 20, 2013, 05:35:49 PM
Work was furious this weekend (now that my schedule has cleared up!).

Mergatroyd made the ride over from Arizona to New Mexico and we slaved away all weekend.

Quick Highlights:
Plans have been set in motion.
Our 2013 goals have been finalized.
Motor plans have been finalized.
Chassis has been finalized.
Building has commenced on final chassis bits/pieces.
Crankcases are due any day now.
Crankshaft & rods ship back to us tomorrow.
Pistons ship tomorrow.
Controls have been dialed in and fitted.
Gauge mounting points finalized.

A few things left to sort, but mostly now it's attacking the 'To-Do' list with a vengance!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on May 21, 2013, 04:56:38 PM
www.unorthodux.com (http://www.unorthodux.com) just came 'on-line'.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on July 24, 2013, 06:31:14 PM
Neither myself, nor our project are dead...  I took a minor motorcycle spill which left my right forearm in a cast for 5 weeks total.  NOT recommended and NOT a good time for it to happen, but it did nonetheless...  dammit.

Anyways, here's some shots from the past however-many-weeks:

Frame prepped for motor installation:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/9359458769_90d54ea856_c.jpg)

Short-case of motor installed (local dealership mechanic did the work as I couldn't...):
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3694/9359458829_1a13fb697c_c.jpg)

Alternator side coming together:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3766/9359458873_9d6d5f9bec_c.jpg)

Clutch side nearly completed:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7444/9359458935_1a4a12c878_c.jpg)

Bodywork *just* before going off to painter: (note: I had to notch out the 'fuel tank' to lower it over the vertical head...  Kinda cool I think...)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5343/9359458967_a63501a68f_c.jpg)

Alternator cover together and I'm curing the loc-tite for the cylinder barrels & heads to be installed by this weekend:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3721/9359482015_edc6315fa9_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Koncretekid on July 24, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
Looks great! Are you going to be "healed" for the BUB speed trials?
Tom
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on July 24, 2013, 08:51:16 PM
Yup! In fact, I'll be healed up for SCTA!   :-D
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on July 29, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5531/9394115001_26864b1762_c.jpg)

There's something just 'right' about this photo...  :evil:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: lsrjunkie on July 29, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
That is a great pic! If I'm not mistaken, that part is where the go juice is injected.  :evil:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Freud on July 29, 2013, 11:42:23 PM
FREUD
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on July 31, 2013, 05:49:18 PM
It's 717 miles to Wendover,
I just got my piston rings,
The bodywork is off to paint,
I just ordered my sponsor decals,
(somewhere) It's dark out, and
(someone) is wearing sunglasses...

HIT IT!

Lots left to do but we remain confident that all will come together in a furious whirlwind of caffiene fueled nights, overnight shipments and luck.  Lots, and lots of luck.

See y'all in 9 days time with an open-piped, nitrous-huffing, desmo-valved bike...
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: Duck-Stew on August 19, 2013, 02:59:22 PM
Well, for bringing up a non-running Ducati to Bonneville on Thursday the 8th, getting it running and through tech by Monday the 12th and running a 130.733mph on Wednesday the 14th...  I'd call the trip a success.

"Lucky" (as the bike has been dubbed) was broken-in and tuned on the salt and we were unable to get all the revs out of it that the motor is capable of.  We never got the motor to pull in anything north of 3rd gear either...  Plus, with the tune *this* far out of whack, there's no point in adding any nitrous to the mix so we left that out completely for this year.

Suffice to say, all of us on Team UnorthoDUX had a great time and will be back next year with a much more tuned and competitive bike to put towards the MPS750F record.  :lol:
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: gsx-rboy750 on September 18, 2013, 07:38:32 AM
Sounds good to me!!
Title: Re: Ducati powered MPS750-F project
Post by: mergatroyd on September 20, 2013, 08:09:13 PM
Well, the quality isn't the greatest... :|

but we have some video of our runs up on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IwJ3OGdTY0

The view is through the windshield of the recovery vehicle.