Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 29, 2012, 09:26:50 AM
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Why haven't I started a build diary for this car before? Ron Main keeps sending information - and I've usually just posted it without thinking about a diary all for itself. Well - it's not a traditional build diary, but here's another batch of photos that he forwarded to me. These show the drive shaft and housing, and then the new transmission. I don't have further information on this stuff, but if you post a question Ron (who now and then monitors this site) might come up with answers.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/067.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/069.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/070.jpg)
Okay - now to the new tranny:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1010.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1009.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1006.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1005.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1004.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1002.jpg)
Finally - - not the transmission, but George's steering wheel and the shifter (I think):
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1000.jpg)
That's it for now.
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So that's the new one off Wiseman trans. Do you have any info on it or just pics?
Sid.
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If that new stuff works, we're in for some stunning speeds. :wink: Wayno
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It's a Liberty 7 speed not a Wiseman.
So that's the new one off Wiseman trans. Do you have any info on it or just pics?
Sid.
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Very cool shots! Thanks Ron and Slim
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I thought they were going to use a Wiesman because he sprays oil on the hot spots to make the grearbox live.
What is a Liberty 7 ?
Thanks, Don
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I can't answer specifically, Don, but I know that one of the long-term issues with the Speed Demon has been the drive line not living through the impact of each shift - just too much torque/torque change all at once, even with the MoTeC programmed to try to soften the hit each shirt. So - one reason for the seven-speed (eight, if you count the push truck) is to be able to run closer gears so there's not so much difference 'tween each. Yes, I assume there's a trade-off - what with the now being one extra shift per se to worry about hurting things.
Also -- maybe the 7-speed allows a slightly longer final drive ratio so the team can hit the goal of 500 mph without bogging too much in lower gears.
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More Please
Thanks Richard 2
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Here's a bit that Ron Main sent last night - about the rear suspension in the #715 car.
SPEED DEMON WITH FERGUSON REAREND AND MAXWELL"GEMIMI I" SUSPENSION
SUSPENSION
First of all, if the racing surface was smooth and flat, we wouldn’t need any. But unlike drag racing Bonneville sometimes is more like off-road racing. There is only one way to go fast. The drive wheels movement must be dampened by the coil/shocks and stay on the track surface for maximum traction. The 1st 400 mph wheel-driven car had full suspension. The “Turbinator” world’s fastest wheel-driven car had full suspension both ends. All the total movement we had on the Demon was .250. I believe we need a minimum of .500. Also if there is room for a lower wish bone it will help, with our lateral movement. After watching the Replay films of our rear end almost jumping out of car on a ruff track even though we had a upper top fuel wishbone suspension and a huge (1.75)track bar. I ask Steve Watt if we could design twin wishbone suspension as proposed on the Bloodhound SST. As far as I know this is the first racecar with this suspension.
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Why haven't I started a build diary for this car before? Ron Main keeps sending information - and I've usually just posted it without thinking about a diary all for itself. Well - it's not a traditional build diary, but here's another batch of photos that he forwarded to me. These show the drive shaft and housing, and then the new transmission. I don't have further information on this stuff, but if you post a question Ron (who now and then monitors this site) might come up with answers.
Finally - - not the transmission, but George's steering wheel and the shifter (I think):
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202012/1000.jpg)
That's it for now.
That there red thingie is the chute release lever. The shifter's on the steering wheel (push button.)
You can see the whole thing on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWIlvzkU4eU&feature=related
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Yeah, I admit it -- calling that a shifter was pretty lame. With a multi-speed tranny that's air operated -- a shift lever would be kind of superfluous. Thanks, Ray. See you soon.
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Always a pleasure when I get to correct the "Comma Cop." LOL!
I'm planning to be on the salt on afternoon of the 8th. C ya then.
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This car has a lot of fantastic workmanship and is a delight to look at. As for the first car with a swing arm suspension, I thought there were several stream liners already with swing arms or a variant of the swing arm suspension. One that comes to mind is Bob Dalton's car, maybe he will chime in. Tony
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Tony, I don't think this one is even a swing arm variant. But, it is well thought out and nice. I like the slider on top. Having built something similar I know how hard it is to get the geometry right, the guy that built this one knows WAY more than I!
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If you look close both the upper and lower "A" arms have sliders which means that the intent of both arms is to only provide lateral location and the 4 bar provides longitudinal location. Interesting thinking, sure would like to hear the reasoning for the seemingly redundant "A" arms.
Rex
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I would think that using the two in that configuration would prevent chassis roll. Interesting theory and I'd like to know why they'd want to do that.
My choice would probably have been some sort of Watts link configuration but I'm sure this one has been well thought out.
Pete
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The four trailing links by themselves would be weak in resisting side to side motion (sort of like a cardboard box with no top and bottom) and twisting of the box they form, they have no diagonals to resist deformation sideways. It looks to me that the Y bars provide that lateral and torsional stiffness against the rear end shifting side to side, and any twisting of the box formed by the four trailing arms.
It would be easier to see with a couple of oblique views.
The trailing bars appear also to not be exactly parallel, different center distance on the front than the rear, I assume to manage U-joint angles of the drive line as the differential rises and falls as the suspension deflects.
Larry
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Look at the way the Ack Attack controlled lateral movement of the swing arm.
Doug in Big Ditch living in the past because the music is much better.
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Look at the way the Ack Attack controlled lateral movement of the swing arm.
You talking about the rear piece that goes around the back of the tire?
Things are packed in so tight on the Ack Attack it is a bit difficult to see what does what unless you really stick your head in there and examine things.
Larry
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In a Drag Race 4 link rear end the single A Arm normally controls Lateral movement.
This Double A Arm 4 Link looks to me like it keeps the wheels parallel while allowing the diff to rotate around the vertical plane for the pinion/tailshaft angle and the horizontal plane so wheels can follow the uneven surface. Binding should not be a problem due to the small suspension travel. That is cool :cheers:
Pete
DLRA#866
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We're in a motel with crappy internet, so look here tomorrow for an update on the suspension for the Speed Demon. Ron called to say that I missed posting the text that explains some of the questions. And today he sent a few bits on the new 7-speed trans - which stuff I'll post tomorrow while we're going down the road to Wendover. Right here the service is so slow that if I waited to do it -- I'd never get to sleep. (Nancy, quit doing that to me :evil: :evil:)
I'll get you the information in the morning.
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Here are the three photos that Ron Main sent - showing the details of the new 7-speed transmission for the #715 Speed Demon. You probably remember tha they'd had long-term problems with tearing up the driveline when shifting - too much engine inertia, too much torque at the shift, and so on. This will give them smaller ratio changes too, they sure hope, minimise the shocks. And it'll give George something to play with as he drives the car up and down the salt.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/086.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/085.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/052.jpg)
Next I'll try to get the text/details on the suspension pictures I put up here a few days ago. Just trying to be helpful, folks.
Nah, I can't do it - at least from the front seat of the pickup. It's mostly text, with a few thumbnails, and I can't get it to come out in a copyable form. If one of youse guys think you can post it I'd be happy to send you the entire email and let you tell me how to do it - or, hey, have you post it here. If nothing else --- www.maxwellindustries.com is a site that's offered up in the explanation.
Be in touch if you can help. Thanks. I might not have the'puter on since we're bouncing along in ND right now, but I'll check it now and then.
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The amount of shock that is felt by the diff and tires is related to the stiffness of the gear box and the drive shaft and a good look at the drive shaft certainly says that it is stiff. Shock loading can be many number of times higher than calculate max torque based upon engine output and you only have to stress one component of the drive train one time above its yield or tensile strength and it will fail. One of the ways to attenuate the shock of shifting is to make one of the links compliant in torsion. Back when the original Doug Nash 5 speeds were built they made a street model that had a "quill" shaft that ran through the counter shaft gear. It was splined to the input gear and then ran the length of the counter shaft gear and was splined to it at the far end. The diameter of this shaft was calculated to provide a certain amount of torsional "spring" which greatly reduced the shock that was transmitted to the drive gears. The quill shaft idea was also used by Leo Goosen and other engine designers that adapted roots style blowers to their race engines, the shaft reduced the maximum shock seen by the drive gears and made the whole thing live. Typical shaft material would be 4340 or better yet M300 and heat treated to around 200,000+ psi yield strength then shot peened and polished. Shouldn't be a problem for this team (dollar wise) and it looks like you might be able to do something in the drive shaft although in the counter shaft gear would require a smaller shaft.
Just a thought, nothing is new.
Rex
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Here's the info from Ron Main via SSS .......... enjoy :cheers:
SUSPENSION
First of all, if the racing surface was smooth and flat, we wouldn’t need any. But unlike drag racing Bonneville sometimes is more like off-road racing. There is only one way to go fast. The drive wheels movement must be dampened by the coil/shocks and stay on the track surface for maximum traction. The 1st 400 mph wheel-driven car had full suspension. The “Turbinator” world’s fastest wheel-driven car had full suspension both ends. All the total movement we had on the Demon was .250. I believe we need a minimum of .500. Also if there is room for a lower wish bone it will help, with our lateral movement. After watching the Replay films of our rear end almost jumping out of car on a ruff track even though we had a upper top fuel wishbone suspension and a huge (1.75)track bar. I ask Steve Watt if we could design twin wishbone suspension as proposed on the Bloodhound SST. As far as I know this is the first racecar with this suspension. [Speed Demon_Ferguson Rear End_Maxwell Gemini I Suspension.jpg]
Shock absorbers absorb . . . shock. Damper is a better word. Take the shocks off of your car and drive around. A small bump sets off a reaction that goes on a long time. The shock on the streamliner helps damp out those reactions. [Traction without suspension at Bonneville.jpg]
Bloodhound SSC references:
Construction is about to begin on the Bloodhound Supersonic Car (SSC) after three years of aerodynamic research and modeling. A prototype Eurojet EJ200 jet engine used in the development of the Eurofighter Typhoon will be used for initial acceleration. A hybrid rocket using a combination of solid and liquid propellant will combine with the jet engine to create 212 kN (47,500 lbs) of thrust and reach 1,000 MPH in 42 seconds.
This is a neat way to keep the package as small as possible – after all, Brian Coombs has to fit in 2 wheels, 2 uprights with 2 sets of bearings, 2 brake packs and 2 sets of double wishbone suspension into the nose of the Car – so it’s pretty tight in there.
http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/car/suspension.cfm
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Having been somewhat alarmed by the configuration of the rear suspension as depicted heretofore in this thread, I inspected and conversed with Steve Watt regarding it.
First of all, the “wishbone” configuration bears no relationship whatsoever to that proposed for the Bloodhound, which is basically a conventional double A-arm suspension with pullrods--similar to most open wheel race cars.
Secondly, the 1.75” “track bar” is, in fact, a 1.75” anti-roll bar, which is mounted in the large, bronze bushed holes gusseted into the frame above the axle. This item is the primary method of resisting the axle input shaft torque. Although not shown in the above photos, Steve says it will be in place when in use--which is a good thing, since the wishbone single Heim joints, loaded in bending, are likely not up to the job without it.
The intended function of the upper and lower “wishbones” is to provide lateral location of the axle. However, as configured they will also share, to some degree, the anti-roll function, which is worrisome.
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Hi Woody
Do you know what car left those skipping black tire marks, looks a little spooky too like in a big right drift wow!!
In 68' i helped install a Henen-Froude dyno and we used a solid shaft made by Donovan with Rasappa u joints , after seeing the standard type drive shaft i was wondering if a splined solid shaft would be better and like Rex says it would give a little to help reduce the big bang with each shift.
Don
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Thanx to the other "Interested" poster for speaking up, especially from his past posts indicating a strong physics background.
Having bit of practical experience in live axle suspensions, I too was puzzled by the arrangement.
Looks like a lot of common pickup points could have been chosen and think there may be OVERKILL in what they're doing. Hopefully, no hingebind.
I'da talked to Roger Lamb
No matter what, I wish the truly dedicated team great success!
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The tire marks were from the end of Tom Burklands run,Ray the Rat took the picture.
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Thanks Glen, Don
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>DND asked "i was wondering if a splined solid shaft would be better and like Rex says it would give a little to >help reduce the big bang with each shift".
I wondered the same thing . At .6 Gs of acceleration my 1 3/8" x 26" streamliner driveshaft twists 4.2 deg .
The formula for degrees of torsional deflection is : ft lb x length (in) divided by (dia cubed x 1642).
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The tire marks shown in the last pic have on reference to anything being discused on this thread & anybody attemting to do so would be incorrect & or misinformed.
I see there was also a reference to Ak Attack's rear end :? that vehicle is a motorcycle!! You know, one wheel on the back!!
There were other more suitable choices to eliminate body roll without going to that double A arm setup that has to go into bind to work.
As for a suspension following the ground at the speed we're talking, where exactly do you think that piece of ground is going to be by the time the suspension reacts to it?
I wonder just how drivable this setup would be if it wasn't for the traction control.
Sid.
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To be successful in any endeavor, look at the people who are at the top of the food chain. Speed Demon and Blowfish are one of the most consistent performers on the salt. Seems like they know a little bit about applying power to the ground. I wonder how active the traction control would be without suspension? Formula 1 outlawed computer controlled suspension in the 90s, I wonder how quickly it reacts to the changing forces applied to them in that racing environment? :cheers:
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Just to (hopefully) clarify . . .
a simple typo . . .
"The tire marks shown in the last pic have on (NO) reference to anything being discused on this thread & anybody attemting to do so would be incorrect & or misinformed."
They were lock-up tires skipping under braking if I remember correctly.
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Stan see my post #27, they were from Burklands liner. Ray has several pictures with the car doing this and with wheels in the air.
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That's what I was trying to say . . .
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Kiwi said "There were other more suitable choices to eliminate body roll without going to that double A arm setup that has to go into bind to work." If you look at the "A" arms you will see that the shaft that has the joint that connects to the rear end appears to be mounted in some sort of linear bearing or bushing that gives the shaft the ability to move forward and aft in conjunction with the arc that the four bar setup dictates. The "A" arms appear to only provide lateral location.
Rex
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A chassis builder I know refered to a link like that, used as a lateral locator as a "spade". He was commenting on a similar system I built to locate the front axle in our modified roadster. Two quarter eliptic springs for longitudinal location and the aforementioned spade for both longitudinsl and lateral location. Come to think of it Henry used them till 1948.
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Thats correct Rex, it's what I call a sliding A bar that is used for lateral location. My point is, with an upper & a lower, it's fine if there is absolutely no body roll but as soon as there is anything other than perfectly level, the system will start to bind. From what I understand, this system is being used to control body roll.
With the information I get from that pic, thats my opinion.
Sid.
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+1 on what Sid said.
Any body roll at all will cock the slides in the A arms.
The rear end is a multiple link swingarm IMHO.
Obviously a very successful car that works.
Cheers
jon
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I don't think there is a slide in that bottom link. Can't see one from my seat anyway.
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Thank you for starting this thread! Its always nice to see some up close and personal pictures of the speed demon. Looking forward to seeing thier results again this year. Are they running the same two engines as last year?
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The tire marks were from the end of Tom Burklands run,Ray the Rat took the picture.
Thanks for explaining that, Glen. Those "skid marks" were made under HEAVY braking as the car wheel-hopped and bounced to a near miss with I-80.
My personal opinion is that braking wheel hop can occur with or without help/hindrance from suspension (or lack thereof.) Wheel hop under acceleration is another matter altogether.
Take it with a grain of salt. I know where to find a whole bunch of it. Matter of fact, I'll be there day after tomorrow!
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It's been nearly a year since I posted anything here, but since I got a batch of photos from Ron this evening -- I figured you might want to see them, too. Seven of them -- so I'll have to make it into a pair of posts. I'll use the text that Ron sent with the pictures.
Start quote: "Kenny Duttweiler and Steve Watt have been making amazing changes for George’s Demon assault on the Salt!
Dave Daviak, Joe Galati, Nick Magley and all the rest of the Demon crew Have been working 24-7 to make this dream come true.
With this new 388 cu. Inch Duttweiler Hellfire engine. New custom headers and the relocated new giant Precision Gen. 2 88mm turbos
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image007_zpsf3a3e2c4.jpg)
Precision Turbo and Engine Intercooler This custom Precision Intercooler that will support over 3,000 HP!
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image002_zps859ce841.jpg)
This custom Precision Intercooler lifts out of the rubber tray mount.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image003_zpsba799537.jpg)
The new custom Precision Turbo’s are now frame mounted and stay with the car when the engine is removed. This will save precious time for our engine changes.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image008_zps83a32664.jpg)
Respacing our tandem wheels to allow for added growth at speeds over 470 mph.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image010_zpsbc2952b5.jpg)
It’s takes a lot of air to feed a Duttwhiler “HELLFIRE” engine! Here Steve is fitting just one of our new giant air intake tubes.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image012_zpse128d3b8.jpg)
Steve Watt making the pattern for our new KENNY’S COMPONENTS carbon fiber air intake system. This new system will be able supply air to a small town.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/image013_zps4c860c3a.jpg)
End quoted text. Stay tuned for the next update.
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Wow in the # 4 pic of the engine side shot that looks like inside the Space shuttle engine bay, boy talk about some Sano work [ very nice indeed guys ]
G Don
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Respacing our tandem wheels to allow for added growth at speeds over 470 mph.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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I don't have the photos right here, but two years ago (I think it was) they did suffer tire damage from growth at high speed - in the lower 400s, I think it was. Might as well plan on clearance for speeds that might happen this year, might not 'til next year. But do it and get that issue out of the way.
Yeah -- 470 mph. That's pickin' 'em up and puttin' 'em down right quick. . .
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Jon, I have a couple small pieces of that tire. And yes, I believe it was two years ago. Wayno
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Ron Main sent this to me a few days ago -- and I just now got a prod in the backside from Sparky, who told me I should get it posted. It's sort of an ad, but it does give good information about the heat shielding on the #715 exhaust system.
Advanced Alloy Shields has just gift wrapped our Twin Turbo exhaust system
with a note! Do not unwrap till after “SPEED WEEK”
Advanced Alloy Shields™ custom manufactures reusable hard cover thermal insulation systems that are molded to fit directly over hot engine components, up to 3000° F. (1649° C.). Since 1972 we have worked with military and aerospace industries and is one of the most qualified companies for extreme heat control
You will see Turbo Insulation Shields on nearly all professional racecars with turbocharged engines. Why? Because they help to increase engine performance and protect against the damaging effects of radiant heat.
Exhaust gasses power the turbo spindle; the higher the performance of the engine, the hotter the exhaust temperatures will be. In fact, if you were to open the engine compartment of any high-performance vehicle after it has been driven hard, you’d see a glowing red exhaust-side turbocharger housing.
To avoid damage and sustain optimum performance, it is important to protect the rest of the engine from the 1600 F°+ temperatures that radiate from the Turbo. Covering the turbo housing will also promote cool air intake that translates to increased horsepower and fire protection!
This is when you should look at the first photo.
Next text:
Our Advanced Alloy Shields are made with two layers of
Inconel with 1/4" inch blanket of 3000 degree rated Silica
insulation between the two layers of the welded Inconel panels.
Next photos, please.
Final text - chart:
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Wow that's a really nice $3-5K solution ... if Sparky and I were rich instead of good looking we would have that instead of the $200 solution :|
:cheers:
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I guess for that kind on money those covers are made out of ' Quilted Unubtainum '
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Here's a recent photo of the boys and their car -- and the Hot Rod Magazine trophy that they've now won five times in a row (for the fastest single pass at SpeedWeek).
It's an angle I haven't seen many times, and boyoboy, doesn't the car look extra-thin this way?
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I found these today that are worth a look(if you can bare the music):
They put cameras all over that car. Interesting shots of the driveline and out the back. And a few "fly by" shots are always awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-IIrhkNUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-IIrhkNUo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecsctFrVz8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecsctFrVz8)
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I found these today that are worth a look(if you can bare the music):
They put cameras all over that car. Interesting shots of the driveline and out the back. And a few "fly by" shots are always awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-IIrhkNUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-IIrhkNUo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecsctFrVz8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecsctFrVz8)
What is the "mood lighting" at 1:50 of the second video? :wink:
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Probably candles for romance:-D :-D Definitely fire because it was flickering.
Ron
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Too short of a fuse and she goes Boom then some fire too
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It was the cool orange neon underlighting that blew.
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There is very little salt halo behind that car. Good streamlining.
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can't get the first one to play any video, runs about 8 seconds and stops. Second one plays well, the music is tolerable if you slide the volume control way left.... looks like something burned through... that car is probably hard on exhaust systems
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I'am thinking at 460 that car is hard on some other systems too, man that's really cook'n
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Got a pdf from Ron Main with photos showing how the molds for the Speed Demon were built.
Here it is. (http://www.landracing.com/docs/speed_demon_molds.pdf)
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Thanks Bob, I probably appreciate that more than most.
If one had the choice, that's how you'd want to get it done. :cheers:
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That probably cost more than my house. Wow.
Thanks to Ron Main for making this available, I'm looking forward to Speed Week.
Dean
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And you thought that this topic had been lost forever, didn't you? I'm resurrecting it because it is dedicated to the Speed Demon over the years -- including the brand-new iteration being built for -- we and they hope - the 2015 SpeedWeek. i know there's another topic running with photos - but I want to keep this one alive.
Betty Howard (George's sister, in case you haven't had the pleasure of meeting her) sent these to me today. Most of them were taken by Danny Burrows and are just shots of various stuff of the new build. But there are some pictures of the new wheels that Troy Trepanier made for the car. There are lots of other photos on the Speed Demon website -- but if you'd like me to do so I can get them collected and presented here.
Here are the wheels:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%206%20JUNE_zpsy33pyal6.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%206%20JUNE_zpsy33pyal6.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/FullSizeRender_zps6bfvn7n2.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/FullSizeRender_zps6bfvn7n2.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/FullSizeRender%202_zpsxypj8lzy.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/FullSizeRender%202_zpsxypj8lzy.jpg.html)
Pictures of this and that on the new car. If some are duplicated elsewhere -- oops, I didn't have that page in front of me when I was doing this.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%2012%20JUNE_zpsz9rpbkbn.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%2012%20JUNE_zpsz9rpbkbn.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%204%20JUNE_zpste0al6sw.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%204%20JUNE_zpste0al6sw.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%2011%20JUNE_zpssrvr5g2d.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%2011%20JUNE_zpssrvr5g2d.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%205%20JUNE_zpsjc2jrvmk.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%205%20JUNE_zpsjc2jrvmk.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%203%20JUNE_zpsl3kx9eyy.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%203%20JUNE_zpsl3kx9eyy.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%202%20JUNE_zpsdmdhsbty.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%202%20JUNE_zpsdmdhsbty.jpg.html)
That's it for now. If and when i get more I'll post them. In other news, the crew will be mostly familiar - with some changes. Dave Farewell, who worked for Goodyear and designed the front tires, has now signed on to the crew. He engineered the wheels that Troy made for the new car. Other than that -- well, wait 'til you get out there to see the gang and the car. Betty says they plan to arrive in Wendover on Wednesday. To me that implies set up Thursday (if not get started Wednesday on setting up the pit) and get the car ready for inspection. Remember how George likes the car to be ready to run hard on the first run out of the trailer -- but add in the fact that the car is brand-new and might take a run or two to get set up right -- and get ready to watch the Speed Demon (hey -- will it be called that or will there be a new name or Speed Demon II or what? I dunno) in 2015.
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Great to see these guys hammering on it to make the August meet and I, like everyone on this site, are pulling for them!! It is good to see that they are evolving with the car, with proven ideas in some areas and better new ideas in others, the new canopy design for instance. I have to apologize to both George and Ron as my "former" opinion of them was that they were "rich guys" playing at land speed racing. I could not have been farther from the truth!! These guys are RACERS!!! and dedicated to our sport and we are so much the better for having them. I am so looking forward to seeing the SDII at the salt in August. I can only wish them the most success.
Rex
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Man That is a BIG turbo!!
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Man That is a BIG turbo!!
Yea. are they staging turbos? Looks like smaller turbos on back of engine.
JL222
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The one thing that I can't do is try to get answers to your specific questions, girls and boys. I'd like to know more details, for sure, just like you would -- but our discussion about interrupting the builders for questions kinda shows that we shouldn't interrupt them to ask things like that. I'll do my best to keep us up to date on the build. I know that some of the folks on the Speed Demon team read this Forum - and maybe one or two of them will note the questions and try to come up with responses for you. No promises -- but until we get to the salt there's not all that much more that I can do.
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The one thing that I can't do is try to get answers to your specific questions, girls and boys. I'd like to know more details, for sure, just like you would -- but our discussion about interrupting the builders for questions kinda shows that we shouldn't interrupt them to ask things like that. I'll do my best to keep us up to date on the build. I know that some of the folks on the Speed Demon team read this Forum - and maybe one or two of them will note the questions and try to come up with responses for you. No promises -- but until we get to the salt there's not all that much more that I can do.
Question was for Landracing members if they thought the same as me :-)
Change to. Looks like they are staging the turbos
JL222 :cheers:
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From photos I've seen on Facebook the car is twin turbos non staged.
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JL, I didn't mean to imply that I was telling you that i couldn't get the answers -- but rather was kinda saying to one and all that I couldn't do that. Sorry if I made you think I was kinda scolding you for not knowing better. We'll all find out on the salt, anyway. :cheers: :cheers:
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From photos I've seen on Facebook the car is twin turbos non staged.
The 6th photo from above shows that big asz turbo mounted away from engine and smaller turbo right behind
engine and there are photos showing 2 turbos on engine just can't see from that angle. When staging, tubos have to flow more air into the smaller turbo.
JL222
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All I see are two turbos, one for each bank.
Bill
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Two turbos, two waste gates.
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Two turbos, two waste gates.
The last photo shows the two turbos mounted on engine. I guess Fred and I are the only ones that can see that compressor side of the other big asz turbo in photo 6?
The two smaller turbos could go to an intercooler and then into the large turbo, depends on cfm.
JL222
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I think you're dealing with perspective with the photography. What appears to be a smaller turbo right behind the engine is actually a similar turbo to the big one mounted on the other side. Photos can sometimes be tricky that way. :-D :-D :-D
Pete
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I think you're dealing with perspective with the photography. What appears to be a smaller turbo right behind the engine is actually a similar turbo to the big one mounted on the other side. Photos can sometimes be tricky that way. :-D :-D :-D
Pete
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/DANNY%2011%20JUNE_zpssrvr5g2d.jpg)
Yep,
Sumner
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Wide-angle lenses produce a highly distorted perspective. A portrait shot with a wide-angle lens makes the person's nose appear much bigger than it actually is. A 90mm lens produces a true visual perspective.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Wide-angle lenses produce a highly distorted perspective. A portrait shot with a wide-angle lens makes the person's nose appear much bigger than it actually is. A 90mm lens produces a true visual perspective.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil:
Wide angle lens works like beer goggles? They both produce a highly distorted perspective.
BR
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BR;
The closer it is to closing time, the more distorted beer goggles become. :-D
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Is it just me or does that engine look more like a DRCE than an LS? Anybody know?
Sid.
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It's not (never has been) an LS series or a DRCE. The engine is a standard type small block chevy (Dart block) with what is known as a "Splay Valve" head although Dart makes a similar type head called "Little Chief" which is what is being used in this application.
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Thanks for that. That also explains why the turbos look so big. Obviously I've never had the chance to personally check the engine out with the body skins off, I'm just always too busy at the salt. For some reason I was under the impression it was LS based.
Sid.
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we got Sucked in by those BIG TURBOS :-D and the coil near plug ign.
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You're not alone Sid. I had some idea in my head that it was an LS as well.
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Here's another half dozen photos of the new Speed Demon's build.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%204%20JULY%202%202015_zpsc9thdbcm.png) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%204%20JULY%202%202015_zpsc9thdbcm.png.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%202%20JULY%20202015_zpshhfvdscs.png) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%202%20JULY%20202015_zpshhfvdscs.png.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%207%20JULY%202%202015_zpsdkwx9ntc.png) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%207%20JULY%202%202015_zpsdkwx9ntc.png.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%205%20JULY%202%202015_zpsgvcqschs.png) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%205%20JULY%202%202015_zpsgvcqschs.png.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%208%20JULY%202%202015_zpsafhkdcc3.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%208%20JULY%202%202015_zpsafhkdcc3.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%201%20JULY%202%202015_zpsiitqd48x.png) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/Bonneville%202015/REBUILD%201%20JULY%202%202015_zpsiitqd48x.png.html)
I'll remind you that you can see lots more of the SD II build by going to the Speed Demon site: www.speeddemon.us. I just took a very quick look there - and that site might not be up to date. but what the heck -- they're building a car from the ground up - and hoping to have it ready for SpeedWeek '15. They've got other than website stuff on their minds. . . Betty Howard - George's sister -- is sending these photos. Danny Burrows sneaks into the shop during idle minutes and takes the photos. Thanks to both of them.
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Anyone have good pictures of the front suspension and steering setup. I have a friend with a new streamliner with the front wheels inline and they are having some issues with suspension etc.
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What does the MoTec do to reduce power just before the shift to save the transmission?
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Anyone have good pictures of the front suspension and steering setup. I have a friend with a new streamliner with the front wheels inline and they are having some issues with suspension etc.
I spent a lot of years with Al's tandem front end on Betsy, what's their issue? PM me so we don't hijack this thread.
Sid.
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What does the MoTec do to reduce power just before the shift to save the transmission?
The MoTec has a gear change ignition cut mode... programmable for cut time or cut while your finger is on the button. I have mine set for about .090 seconds... it can be set to any amount of time. Since I air shift a bike transmission I have the air solenoid and the cut input on the same wire. Both actions happen at the same time...
Theirs may be a little more complicated... I don't know if they even need to reduce power for shift... I didn't need to when I had a B&J on the liner. Of course I wasn't making 2500+ HP :laugh: