Landracing Forum
Loring Timing Association (Maine) => Loring (AFB) land speed venue => Topic started by: Koncretekid on December 07, 2011, 06:40:41 PM
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This year at Loring was my first time for an east coast event, and probably because Loring is quite remote from the rest of the east coast events, wait lines were tolerable. But one thing I saw that I question was the use of cones to mark someone's place in line. For example I spent a couple of hours Saturday afternoon and into the early evening working on my bike to get it ready for Sunday morning. I noticed a few cars and bikes being put in line to get an early starting place for Sunday, and I did the same. But what I did not particularly agree on was that some competitors had put orange cones in line with their initials on them, to save a place. To me that meant that their vehicles were not yet ready. So why did I bother to work into the evening to get mine ready? I would like to know what others think of this practice, and is it fair to those who get their vehicles ready before getting in line. At Bonneville (BUB), if you are in line when the starting line is closed for any reason, you get on the list for the next morning. I don't think cones are considered being in line.
This is probably more of an issue at more centrally located events, and may be the norm, I don't know. But I think that if you're ready and can put your vehicle in line, fine, but if it's not ready, why allow it? And Loring just might get more crowded in 2012, so I thought I should ask this question now. Maybe there's justification for it, but I'd like to know what that may be.
Tom
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I would not want to leave a vehicle overnight in line.
a cone would work for me.
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I'm a cynic and at times expect the worst from people.I've been driven past on the way to the start line when groups of ten leave marshalling here at Lake Gairdner, been argued with about positions in line with het up hot heads who think they're the only people who spent a lot of money and a stupid amount of time to get ready for an event that has a bleak record recently and who's lines are long and slow.
My question with cones would be " how many are you allowed to have?" because as soon as that practice starts there'll be people putting two down, maybe three......got away with three, lets try four........
We had issues here with cars that had multiple drivers, the drivers thought they could mark their place in line, when the car came back around they'd be close to the front, while two other drivers were further down. Nope, not anymore.
The race vehicle is what is entered. If you want to race a cone bog in. If it's not ready it ain't ready, when it IS ready put it in line, then it ain't ready again until it arrives at the back of the line.....
We had a classic here a few years back when a competitors daughter took on the job of running the "chalkboard" which was the way the line was kept in order before we went to the current marshalling system. She rubbed the names off and moved them further up the line as they left the start. Eventually someone noticed that dad had been doing laps.......yep, she would add his name to the list minutes after he ran, and never at the end , always about half-way up. The next year some bright spark came up with the "slat-board" idea, you'd write your name on the slats which would drop down each time one was removed from the bottom, meant that pushing in was over, STILL some competitors managed to end up with their entry on two slats.......
That's what I never ever get about crooks, when do they get time to enjoy stuff if they're so busy scheming all the time?
I would not want to leave a vehicle overnight in line.
a cone would work for me.
We have a list written at the COB and that is the running order in the morning, that's pretty simple.
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Try putting a cone for your TF car in line when the J/SA cars are running at an NHRA event. Bet it don't stay there long.
DW
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Cones are used for bikes that require tire warmers. They are on the side of staging hooked up to a generator until the cone gets to the front of the line.
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Cones are used for bikes that require tire warmers. They are on the side of staging hooked up to a generator until the cone gets to the front of the line.
and to add, it is solely a safety issue. On the uber-high HP bikes, you have a much higher risk of chunking a tire on asphault when it's not up to an even temp. It reeks havoc on the carcass if you start at 50F and accelerate to 250 mph within a mile.
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I'm aware of the cones in line to mark places for bikes with tire warmers which are placed up near the start line. I was talking about cones being placed in line overnight to hold a good starting position for the next morning. And I guess if you were closes enough to the entry point and wanted to warm your tires first thing in the morning, that might make sense.
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If not a cone in line it at the prestage area it will be your vehicle in line. To me there is no difference, and btw I don't even own a cone. My bikes go in line in prestage. Maybe it's me, but it seems like a non issue.
Once Joe Daly organized the staging lanes Saturday afternoon and Sunday we moved well. I, like some prefer a cap on entrants. I believe the LTA has a plan to get us the max runs for Loring. Looking forward to 2012.
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If Joe Daly was in charge of the staging line I assure you it was being done fairly. Joe is a no B.S. guy who will not show favoritism to anybody!!
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If Joe Daly was in charge of the staging line I assure you it was being done fairly. Joe is a no B.S. guy who will not show favoritism to anybody!!
+1
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You guys are making me blush ... the July Loring event has grown so quickly that there weren't enough experienced people to control the starting line and order was lost. I was working motorcycle tech and the problem was brought to my attention by Charles Venable. I went there and applied a similar procedure to how the ECTA runs the line at Maxton (Al Freitas). All I did was bring order and everyone was extremely cooperative. Tim Kelly asked the volunteers to stay in position until we ran everyone that was on line through and every volunteer stayed. We ran until 7:30 but it ended up a good afternoon. It is difficult to run an event with 140 entries but it can be done ...
Joe a
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All I did was bring order and everyone was extremely cooperative. Tim Kelly asked the volunteers to stay in position until we ran everyone that was on line through and every volunteer stayed. We ran until 7:30 but it ended up a good afternoon.
I was in that line. the shutdown time kept getting pushed back.
430, 530, 630-- what lta and all the volunteers did was fantastic.
everyone in that line got to run.
thank you again, too all.
bill franey
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Joe, you and your Brother did a fine job after we got you re-tasked from inspections to the starting line. Like wise when we diagnosed the problem and went into get-er-done mode, all other volunteers and the LTA staff also did well adapting ..so that Saturday afternoon and all day Sunday went GREAT.
I too agree that 120 to 150 entries is manageable,, with some staging line respect, good starting line crews and extending the run time till dusk also caught us up. This is a lesson on how to handle large crowds.
I am glad I could help... but ,, Tim and Mark deserve the credit for being open and listening as well as adapting in the throngs of a very busy and hectic time... WORKING TOGETHER is and was the Key..
Charles
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Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.
Charles you are wrong though. the volunteers deserve the credit. All I did was sit on my A$$ for 2 days, well 2 1/2.
As for the heart of the matter. What is being addressed is not the start line which worked well, but the overnight staging in the pits.
For the record, I told people they could put a cone out if they did not feel comfortable leaving their bike out overnight. But, they were told that the bike had to be ready to run. What I observed Saturday evening was people packing up the trailer, putting away the bike, putting out a cone, and leaving. I saw no issues.
I allowed the cones because the wind actually blew a couple of bikes over on Saturday so I wanted to protect people's gear.
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That sound fair. I would like that the bike replaces the cone in the AM. Don't just move the cone forward.
Totaly not allowed, the bike leaves the starting line and the cone is moved to some location in staging.
DW
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Don't get me going on cones; abuses at every turn and most of the abusers don't even know they are displaying poor grid etiquette.
The ONLY cones which should be allowed are for bikes/cars which need special care, and the cones MUST be attended.
When i am in grid and have a cone in front of me with no one around, i pitch it into the weeds. I sure as shit don't move it up when the line moves.
It's simple. Don't let anyone onto the grid until 6am, no one. Have someone there policing it.
No fukken cones unless the vehicle is nearby getting its tires warmed or something.
No need to make it complicated.
But the basic issue isn't cones, it's allowing too many people register for the event.
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Well, I think we've cleared that up :)
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Seems like I stirred up a can of worms! I really only wanted to know what the acceptable protocol was. I sure as heck am not going to place a cone if it annoys someone else. It seems that the most reasonable use of cones in place of vehicles would be for reasons of impending bad weather, or if there is a security issue. I may bring one with me, as I probably wouldn't want to leave my bike in line in a driving wind or rain storm. But I won't be using it unless absolutely necessary. Necessary to me means that if a whole bunch of others are doing it, I wouldn't feel bad joining the crowd. As for starting the line the night before, it seems to be an acceptable practice. I didn't do so on Friday night, and was amazed when arriving at 7:30 in the morning that the line stretched all the way around the paddock.
As for the organization of the Loring meet, I have already praised the professionalism shown at the July meet elsewhere on this forum and I'll say it again. Congratulations on a job well done.
Tom
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Having been involved in LSR since 1953 it seems to me everyone is trying to jump the gun on how the new venue in Ohio is to be run. Joe & Keith as well as the other volunteers have a lot on their plate to make it all happen in a orderly manner. At El Mirage we (SCTA) have operating procedures for the event on the dry lake.
It is available on line for all to read. This procedure is updated each year as necessary.
I would think that each of you send your suggestions to the ECTA web site. As it is a new venue in another state with the facility and the city requirements along with everything that requires permits, safety equipment crowd control, signs for staging, pit area return roads, speeds on the same etc. The list is long and subject to many changes for the first event to happen.
The general lay out of the facility I have not seen but I am sure each entrant will get one when arriving and be directed to the pit area along with any other instructions for the event. I hope the Joe and Keith print out a Q & A and suggestion sheet as a guide line for them and the racers to work together with ECTA and the state / local city to make this a great and welcome event for all.
:-) :cheers:
OOPS, sorry I placed this in the LTA venue. Should go in the ECTA/Wilmington Ohio section, maybe Jon can move it.
Some years back getting a spot near the front of the line for a fresh course to run on there were racers bringing their cars and putting them in line 3 or 4 days before the event. At that time it was decided to be fair to everyone to re do the point system and the next events points would get your place in line. That system is still used today. There was no security at the lakes and you took a chance of leaving a vehicle sit for 2 or 3 days.
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Having been involved in LSR since 1953 it seems to me everyone is trying to jump the gun on how the new venue in Ohio is to be run. ... :-) :cheers:
Glen, it's great to see someone even older than I (63) still doing LSR :cheers:
BTW: this is an LTA thread... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Karl
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That sound fair. I would like that the bike replaces the cone in the AM. Don't just move the cone forward.
Totaly not allowed, the bike leaves the starting line and the cone is moved to some location in staging.
DW
This is exactly the intent. Plus, we are not talking about staging. We are talking about the line that forms at the exit to the pits to get to staging. On sunday morning, if there was not a bike were the cone was, the cone was not allowed to go to staging. There is a lot more being made of this than Tom ever intended. The procedure for "coning up" and what is allowed in line is covered in the new version of the rule book to address any participants that do not understand sportsmanship. From the tone of this thread, I guess our racers feel that there are more than I thought.
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Having been involved in LSR since 1953 it seems to me everyone is trying to jump the gun on how the new venue in Ohio is to be run. ... :-) :cheers:
Glen, it's great to see someone even older than I (63) still doing LSR :cheers:
BTW: this is an LTA thread... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Karl
Karl --- only 63 years od ... a mere child ...
Joe
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Having been involved in LSR since 1953 it seems to me everyone is trying to jump the gun on how the new venue in Ohio is to be run. ... :-) :cheers:
Glen, it's great to see someone even older than I (63) still doing LSR :cheers:
BTW: this is an LTA thread... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Karl
Karl --- only 63 years od ... a mere child ...
Joe
joe, there are 2 d's in "odd"... like the toast goes: "for he's a jolly odd fellow, for he's a jolly odd fellow..."
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You Old and Odd fellows crack me up...
But I still Luv Ya...
Charles
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Glen, I'll leave your post where it sits. While sure, it could go to the ECTA thread -- it's on topic here about basic procedures for any race event, and that's what's being discussed here - for Loring. So I'll let it ride. Anyway, I don't know how to move just one post (well, maybe I do, but if I admit it then I'll get scads of requests to move things :evil:).