Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Nortonist 592 on March 03, 2006, 10:27:09 PM
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I don't know if there are any sidecar fans out there. This is mine. I'm building it for El Mirage. 500 Weslake speedway engine for power.
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That's wild! How about a run down on particulars, your expectations and more photo views. Is that hub steering? Hard to tell. Looks like fun. Good luck.
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Your sidecar looks great....what are you using for power????
We have been running a "chair" since 1978....has been lots of fun for us, and 4 records todate.
How does your passenger ride in the platform??.....after all sidecars must have a passenger....or it would not be a sidecar....it would just be a bike with a "wheel on a stick"
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Sorry, you did indicate Speedway Engine.....at 70 years old one does not alway connect the eye's and brain...sorry
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are they gonna let ya run that go cart tire on the hack side? needs an H rating ya know. the tech guys gave ya some crap at the nov race bout it were ya able to get a waver or somethin'?
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Nice Sidehack, it's really interesting.
How small is the wheel for the chair? I thought that is had to have an 8" rim...
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You can run a 5 inch wheel on the chair and use a Goodyear front runner tire like the ones they used on the Top Fuel dragsters of old.
We were the first to use one on our outfit (it was Hell getting thru Tech back in 1989) we have been at 187mph with that tire....no probems
P.S. That 187mph was on pavement in France (1991) with a passenger in the chair.
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Thanks for the kind words. I'm a computer neandertal and putting this on here was an experiment that surprisingly worked. Hence the lack of any details. The motor is a short rod Weslake speedway motor. The trans is a laid down Norton [early 50s]. The frame is home brewed. 109 3/4" w.b., Chopped up Kawasaki forks with an Austin mini wheel, Triumph back wheel and some BSA frame bits. The sidecar wheel is a 5" kart wheel and tire. I down loaded a lot of info from Bridgestone as to the tire. And it was approved. I made a partial run last July at El Mirage [turn out]. I was using a Tiumph trans. One forward, four neutrals. Should have listened to my Dad. I run an earlier Weslake in my Norton and it has run 123 at El Mirage so I'm hoping for at least that and with a bit of luck, better.
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Using a cart tire or the Drag front tires makes sense.
Good luck with your rig, it looks like it will do well.
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187 Mph as a passenger on a sidecar sounds crazy. What kind of event was that?
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Hey James....It was a
Speed Trial in France by the town of Chinon on a closed public road
with a 1/2 km shutdown.....only had the rear brake I ran at Bonneville.....barely got it stopped before the barrier...in Europe one uses a passenger in the chair like all REAL sidecars should have....interesting fact: I ran the same gearing that got me a Bonneville record at 160mph + on salt....ran 187mph on pavement....
talk about wheel spin.....the outfit was Kaw. KZ powered w/turbo and gigle gas...could have gone faster but would not have been able to stop in time. Ah, yes the good old days....living past glory!!!!
P.S. You should have seen the white face of the passenger when she took off her helmet....almost caused me a divorce...but we are still together todate 35 years.
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Bob
She said your face was the white one and she kept you on your promise you would never do it again.
And that time she believed you.
Tell them about the passenger simulator that you guys ran on the chair after Elmo decided
you can't have a passenger any more.
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Jack D is trying to get me in trouble....BNI let us run passengers until 1987 (152mph)
then the officials said
" no more passengers" it is my understanding Elmo G (how are you doing these days Elmo????) was involved in this decision......so when we build a streamliner sidecar in 1991, it was build with a full passenger platform (we had plans to run it in Europe)...in order to keep the full Airo-effect we put a
mannequin in full leathers strapped on the platform and called it "Elmo". To this day BNI will not allow passenger......However, there is hope...it looks like the
BUB Event for 2006 will allow "two up" as per AMA/FIM rules.
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so when we build a streamliner sidecar in 1991, it was build with a full passenger platform (we had plans to run it in Europe)...in order to keep the full Airo-effect we put a
mannequin in full leathers strapped on the platform and called it "Elmo".
Now I don't mean to offend anyone and with the current rules I would probably build a sidecar streamliner like is presently being done, but come on these "new" sidecars are about as far from what I envision a sidecar class to be as allowing a streamliner to run as a lakester. Why not make it so they would actually have to encapsulate or hold something that would be in the shape of a real passenger.
They are pretty neat pieces of engineering :D , but not sidecars in my point of view :? .
c ya, Sum
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When SCTA decided to eliminate the monkey the rules were changed to keep them a sidecar
and not to a class A bike with a tag wheel.
I believe the rule said "The operator must demonstrate they can be accommodated aboard
the sidecar to guarantee a minimum size."
That kept the entrant from establishing the validity of the sidecar with an undersized person for inspection.
The tech guy (not me) changed it to the tag wheel outfit and even produced the minimums at El Mirage
so that he could get #1 in points against a bike that never existed in the World.
After establishing the minimum minimums he went back to the Board and tried to get even those reduced.
I guess he was suitably embarrassed and it did not go down even more.
It was not down hill from there but along the path and with the credibility to match.
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norton
what speed rating did they give ya on the hack tire?
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Bob, You've got one heck of a Wife to trust you enough to ride in the sidehack at that Speed!! The elmo the mannequin story is a hoot too!
I thought the motorcycle guys (myself included) are a little crazy, some of that stuff is just insane!
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I need to get myself rulebook. The FIM sidecar rules look a lot more specific for sidecars. Platform size, minimum windshield height, grab bar requirements, etc...
The DRLA rules are wide open "Sidecar: The operator must demonstrate that he can be accommodated aboard the sidecar to verify it can be safety ridden and to guarantee a minimum size."
Is the SCTA rule similar? it does seem pretty wide open to me.
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The SCTA rule did read much the same as the DLRA reads and that established the vehicle with some qualification as a sidecar. It was not just a tag wheel on what would otherwise be a bike.
The FIM rules you are reading apply to road racing sidecars that even have some differences but all really run and feature a monkey.
A pure speed record chair has evolved into something quite different and only counts as a sidecar if you hold your tongue in your cheek just right.
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1212FBGS, They never gave me a speed rating for the tire. Bridgestone don't put speed ratings on their kart tires. I got as much info as I could in regards to the application of the tire. I.E. what classes it is used in. Its a spec tire for a class where the minimum weight is 360 lbs. with driver, 125 shifter class. These are classes where the top speed is over 100. I pointed out that at El Mirage the tire won't be subjected to braking, turning loads etc. After a long discussion they said it was ok. Better than the wheelbarrow tire on a certain streamliner. I think the FIM have banned passengers for years now. In the LSR context that is. The SCTA rules state you must have a platform capable of holding a passenger. Minimum dimensions 12" X 32". The rule change for this year states that the platform must be in the correct orientation to the bike. I never did like the wheel on a stick sidecars. I'm building it to the rules. I'm not one to show up and present the bike to the inspector hoping he does'nt spot whatever I may be trying to hide.
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Hey Norton Guy......Wrong......
FIM does allow for a passenger in the sidecar for LSR.....the rules state either a passenger or 60 kilo
of ballast.
If I were you I would change out that go-kart tire for a Goodyear 5 inch front runner.....the kart tire has no speed rating, the Goodyear does. For the live of me I do not understand SCTA thinking .....it is noted in the rule book regarding
speed-ratings on tires, why bother to print it if they don't go by their own rules. Good luck with your new sidecar and welcome to the club!
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Blessed are the ignorant for they shall build sidecars. I did'nt know or think that the FIM still allowed passengers. The last passenger I saw was Tommy Ivo stretched out on Maurice Brierly's outfit at, I believe, Elvington in England in the early 60s. As to the tire. I think logic actually prevailed for once. A tire designed for 100+ mph, for hard cornering, braking etc. should be more than ample for a, hopefully, 100+ mph sidecar at El Mirage. In the 80s I had a kart with a 650 Yamaha in it. We played with it at El Mirage. Sliding it sprint car style and just plain wringing its neck down the lakebed. We never had tire problems. Should I find a 5" Goodyear I will certainly use it. My own feelings on the tire issue is that a lot has been made out of nothing. If you wander over and have a look at most of the car tires they tend to ancient cracked all over LSR tires. If most of the cars I've looked at at El Mirage were to show up at the motorcycle tech there would be cardiac arrests all round. Or to put it another way, ask any car guy how old his tires are and see how loud he laughs.
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A tire without a power, braking , weight, or turning load can spin much faster.
That is 1 of the reasons a free spin test is not valid.
Failures begin with the heat generated by the transmission of loads through the tire and start with the heat failure that causes the tread to pull away from the casing. :wink:
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Should I go fast enough to spin the tire beyond its limits and cause it to blow I will be the happiest person in the world.
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Maybe out of this world! :D :D :D Just dark humor. Good Luck! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Trim the sidecar wheel so that it is off the ground when under way , presents the least area to the wind and you can go faster. :wink:
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You must be a mind reader.
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Do not shroud the front wheel. It needs to be in turbulent air to work, otherwise it will work as a front rudder. You can get away with it with 3 wheels on the ground to a certain extent but it will make 2 wheeler hunt.
Take high pressure from the top of the front tire and below the fender and force it into the path of the dirt off the bottom of the tire. Force the dirt under the vehicle and not in your face. If the bottom is not closed up, now would be a good time.
Undampned frame flex will be a large part of the problems you might have and the more rake you have the more rigid the frame must be in torsion. :wink:
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I've no plans to shroud the front wheel. I figure I'm going to suck dust no matter what I do. It has a full belly pan. My butt is too close to the ground not to have a bit extra in that area. As to frame flex. I'm no engineer so it remains to be seen.
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If you want to test your ability to ride it, start by coasting it down a hill.
If you want to see what the dust is going to do, run it through a puddle of water and see what gets wet.
Control the water and the dust will take care of it's self.
If you don't like the taste of the lake bed, a dust mask is not a sissy deal at all and they leave a really clean spot on your face that is great in pictures.
An engineer has the advantage of being able to try stuff without all the complication presented by the fact that it has never been done before or can take credit for a reinvention.
You might surprise yourself. :wink:
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I hope to.
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I am enjoying the sidecar banter especially the record breaking bits, i am the project director of the Flying Kiwi team in New Zealand and we set a new FIM World 1000cc record in July last year over the flying Kilometre, we got an average of 272 mh(168mph), reading your posts makes this speed seem slow but we are starved of decent roads here in NZ and ran on a b grade country lane which was about 6m wide with trees on one side and telegraph poles on the other!
, i had to keep within 250mm of the centre line to prevent the camber change upsetting the aerodynamics, if you are interested in seeing some photos please goto our site www.goflyingkiwi.co.nz
keep up the good work
phil
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That is fast on a road that wide :D . I've only been to about 130 on a 2 lane in the desert and the cactus was going by pretty quick.
That is a beautiful body. Bring it over and run it on the salt :P .
I would love to see it in real life. I added a link to your site on my "links page".
c ya, Sum
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looks like a lot of hard work went into building your hack.. good job!
kr
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STUNNING!!!!! Just absolutely stunning. Sumner says bring it over. Please don't. It will make mine look like the turd it really is. How about some details? Motor, frame, etc. And for most of the people on this thread speed rating on the sidecar tire!!!! Was it Bob Burns from down your way that ran a Vincent sidecar? Or a Vinnie with a wheel on a stick as I remember the photo. My hat is off to you.
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We went by FIM rules that are a bit different to your scta rules, you guys have much more experience of the actual requirements for making vehicles safe at the intended speed, the FIM have to produce generic rules that can be followed by anybody, anywhere in the world and that demands a less specific approach to individual classes, the actual FIM rules are more concerned with the safety of the event and the spectators and that the bike conforms to loose class definitions (mainly based on engine size, not aspiration method) so they offered us a lot of freedom, the only other rule book that i had was the NZ national Road Racing SIdecar regs, so we followed them as well! (sort of)
We built the bike to run on tarmac and the modifications required before it would run on the salt at its true potential (we estimate 385 kmh) are extensive, parachute, fire system etc, are all possible but tricky to retro fit.
it took me three and a half years to complete and involved over 300 people, i have recently finished the whole accounts thing and the total cost to break the record and build the bike etc has come in at NZ$212,581
which is quite a bit more than i thought when i started!
tyres, we used Triumph DAytona wheels and rear swinging arm, that meant that we had to use motorcycle tyres that were rated to the 320 kmh that we were aiming for, the only choice that we had here in NZ was Michelin Pilots. They worked real good and would certainly be safe to go a lot quicker on if the rules allowed.
happy to answer any other questions you guys may have,
our bike is actually going up for sale now, i am looking at putting it up for auction in either Australia or Japan, but i would prefer to see it go to somebody that is going to use it instead of just look at it, if you know anybody that might be interested in buying a current WOrld Record holding bike with a gear to go.. please let me know
remember...
Speed kills....
Go Faster.
cheers
Phil
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I'm still stunned by it. I'm afraid my effort pales into insignificance. I've got about $1700 in mine and in the number of people involved I'm minus 299 . I am curious to know the wheelbase and how much lead you have on the sidecar wheel? I'm leading the back wheel on mine by 10". Yours looks to have considerably more. And what kind of steering are you using? One final question. How much drag does the Kiwi flag generate? A couple of non sidecar questions. I'm new to this forum and am curious to know what the points mean that you get for each entry? And what is the meaning of donate under each points total? And can I use the accumulated points for El Mirage?
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I tried last time to upload a decent picture of the chassis but it was too big, i'll try again with another picture,
To answer your question, we had that choice of 60 kg of lead or a passenger, mainly because i did'nt want to kill anybody else, i chose the lead! although i had 9 dead keen volunteers!
it is 2 halves, one in front of the side wheel and one just inboard.
Because we used a Triumph rear arm the distance is exactly as on the triumph, the front and rear wheels are in line, the engine however is 60mm offset towards the side wheel to give better balance.
The steering is double wishbone hub centre, designed by us and taken from a picture of a LCR racing sidecar, the steering ratio is reduced to give only about 7 degrees of lock, this successfully prevented over reaction at speed but is a pain when moving it around the carpark!
goto our site for more pictures
www.goflyingkiwi.co.nz
cheers
phil
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Hey people, the flag on the back of
the outfit allows the driver "to keep it between the hedges" as Sidecar Roadracing World Champion
Eric Oliver has been known to say!!! Hub-steering makes for a low frontal area...however is not needed for straight-line sidecar racing...modified normal M/C forks work just fine. Hey Phil, what kind of money are you expecting to get for your outfit? Also "YES"
the Burns Vincent sidecar was a "wheel on a stick"
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Hey Bob
Good to hear from you!
As usual you hit the nail on the head! I have had some real problems in valuing the bike, there is no precedent that i can see, current World Record holder with a gear to go, as you know the project cost over $200k to complete but i do not expect to get anything like that for it, if i could get somewhere between $50k and $200k then i could buy a chassis out of switzerland and go on to win the NZ sidecar roadracing championship, but at the end of the day it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, from a personal point of view i would rather take less and see someone use it for what it was designed for!
It will be very tough to see it go after putting my heart and soul in to it for nearly 4 years but i have got to do it if i want to move on with the rest of my plans.
Also my wife said she has had enough and will walk if i decide to go on for another year!
cheers
phil
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Heres a picture without the bodyshell, hope it comes out ok
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Phil, regarding selling your outfit.....I know you would like to have someone get it an run it.....however, I know of a museum that is building a great display of competition sidecars.....they have our 1991 streamliner outfit in their display. contact me at:
bbakker@webtv.net
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(http://www.vintagekarts.com/Rockets/rockkart.jpg)
This is Jack McClure's Kart with a 1500 lb thrust Reaction Dynamics rocket motor. This kart turned 215 mph in the quarter mile! That's with a 1967 Goodyear Eagle kart tire.
I ran a road racing kart with a 350 Kawasaki in 1971 and have a timing slip at 172 at Ontario Motor Speedway. That's not just straight line, but racing cornering speeds and heavy braking loads.
In 1980, the karting speed envelope was pushed yet further by Australian Rosco McGlashan. Rosco, who at the time was living in the U.S., built and drove a hydrogen peroxide rocket kart that surpassed 253 mph! That's over 7700 rpm on the tire!
Tread separation is largely caused by side wall failure from heat caused by the tire flexing as it is loaded and unloaded on every revolution. Tire flex is a function of side wall stiffness, and the very small side wall on a kart tire is very stiff. Centrifugal force also places huge stress on the tire, and the larger the diameter, the larger the force. The small diameter of the kart tire works to its benefit at higher speeds.
I work for an automotive wheel manufacturer. We have 8 tires running constantly at 55 mph with 4,000 pounds of load to test the wheel at abnormal loads. 4,000 pounds on one tire distorts the side wall enough that the tire reaches 150 F in the side wall within 30 seconds. There is a large dumpster with brand new tires with no tread wear that have blown the side wall out. It happens about every two days and is fun to watch if you are near by. That is, after your heart starts pumping again!
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Dean Los Angeles, Thank you very much. I had forgotten about "Cap'n" Jack. This is what I have been trying to explain. That kart tires are capable of a lot. What I plan to do to the tire at El Mirage is nothing compared to the abuse they get at a track. 172 at Ontario? Whew!! In talking to Tom Evans at El Mirage I think with the info I provided and the class I'm running in Tom realized that my sidecar poses no threat to the tire. I have absolutely no doubt that the tire is way more than able.
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Flying Kiwi,
Nice setup, I can see that a lot of time and engineering went into your machine. Great website too.
All this talk of sidecars has gor me wanting to build one. I'll have to get in touch with a buddy of mine who built a LSR sidecar rig awhile back....
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James; If and when you plan to build a LSR sidecar .....do yourself a favor and talk to some of the people that have been racing "chairs" in LSR in past years.....it will make for a better and safer outfit in the long run...
and also save you a lot of work and money. Best of luck.
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All this talk about sidecars is very interesting. Can anyone say what it is like to drive a streamliner sidecar? What I am talking about is one that is setup like the McLeish Bros. rig. One with the driver in the prone position like a car streamliner. A while back I exchanged some email with Hawkwind on this. Would be interested to hear what others think or know.
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When we build our sidecar streamliner back in the late 1980 and ran it in the early 1990's.
Larry Coleman drove it...Larry has many years experience with sidecars
being a 3 times National Roadracing Champion back in the 1970's. We had Larry driving the outfit in a normal sitting position...inside a
roll-gage. We did have some problem with Tech. ( BNI )at that time but with Tom Evans help we got them resolved. Fast time for us with that outfit was 174+mph.
However, BNI rules state that over 175mph streamliners need to have a chute...this is one of the reasons
we retired the outfit not knowing
what opening the chute would do to
a handling of the outfit....in fact to this day we really still do not know how it would work....we do have some more input now...but have not run a streamliner since 1991.
Larry is driving our present outfit
which if everything is right should exceed 175mph....but not being a streamliner...(if I read the rules right) does not require a chute.
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Hi James
If you ever decide to get serious and build a LSR Sidecar streamliner you should talk to me first, there is no information on Aerodynamics for asymmetric vehicles and you should really be looking at using the airflow to provide stability at high speed, we have done all the research and would be happy to share it with seroius contenders, our bike produces its own weight in downforce at 280 kmh and i am sure that without it i would have been in real trouble.
Thanks for the kind words about the bike, after all this time i still can't decide if it is a beautiful thing or not!
Has anybody seen the movie Worlds Fastest Indian yet?
you all have to go as soon as you get the chance.. kids and all, Land speed Racing is never going to look better!
cheers
phil
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Anybody planning to race a sidecar at the 2006 AMA/FIM BUB Speed Trials, needs to take a look at the AMA rules for 2006....there have been some positive changes
made in the area of platform size,
passengers and ballast. It looks like we may be getting back to "real" sidecars, hopefully SCTA/BNI
will rewrite their sidecar rules in the near future.
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The parachute thing is interesting. Looking at the rules they say that a sidecar streamliner must conform with streamliner rules except skids. The parachute rule for streamliners says that ALL streamliners must have a parachute. Those running over 250 must have two parachutes. The paragraph goes on to say that there must be a mechanical device that automatically opens the 'chute if the streamliner angles over 50 deg. on an enclosed tail streamliner or 80 deg. on an open tail streamliner. Which brings up the question, how does a streamliner sidecar meet that requirement? At El Mirage there is a rule that says all vehicles going over 150 must have a 'chute. That obviously does'nt apply to bikes or sidecars. I have a problem with being strapped to something that if the worst should happen you're stuck with it until it stops bouncing around. I guess it comes from being on bikes all my life. Hopefully mine will go straight. And I'm looking forward to seeing The Worlds Fastest Indian. I've only seen snippets but I remember as a kid reading about Burt Munro at Bonneville.
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I've thought a lot about running a sidecar liner. If the driver is in a head first prone position, how can one build a roll cage to meet the current scta rules? Didn't Vesco build a 50cc liner where the driver was prone?
Phil, does your research on aerodynamics have information about non- sidecar two wheeled liners? I'd be very interested in that.
David
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Hi DKA
You are spot on about the rules and the need for a roll cage that complies, if i was to build another one i would use the prone position without question.
I come from a road racing background and the position is familiar to me and i went with what i knew, on reflection we would have been much better of with a prone possition because it reduces frontal area and therefore drag.
I also started with a road race chair as a start point for the design, even after nearly 100 prototypes we did not consider changing the seating position, i had no photos or information on any other design of sidecar built for record breaking and we used what was familiar to us at the time.
The other factor that influenced me was the rules that i had to follow, The FIM rules for a World record and Motorcycling NZ for a national record, neither have anything like as much detail in them as the SCTA rules especially for sidecars. I had no thoughts of running at Utah when i started, i only wanted to do it here in NZ.
We would however be in a much stronger position if we had used the SCTA rules because i now understand that they are the product of many years refinement and are designed to protect the rider as well as the rest of the crew, the motorcycling NZ rules are for racing sidecars and the detail on record attempts is purely environmental.
To answer your question about 2 wheel liners, our research did not cover 2 wheelers, but the guy who ran the aero team worked on the Britten powered White Lightning in the early 90's and still has all the data, he is the Wind Tunnel Engineer and a very knowledgable guy. if you send me a bit of info on what you are doing i will pass it on
www.goflyingkiwi.co.nz
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Hi DKA, If you are interested in build a sidecar 'liner you might want to check out bike 5050B. Its a two wheel 'liner but could just as easily be made into a sidecar. The rider is in a head first prone position. From what I could see he gets in, lays down and one of his crew secures the belts. The belt latch is on the flat of his back with a quick release cable runs forward to the rider. I did'nt get a chance to examine it better as I was in line to make a run, but it is an interesting concept. If you go to www.scta-bni.org and click on to El Mirage. The bike photos in June have a couple of good shots of it and I think if you poke around the bike photos from 2004 and 2005 I think you will find a number of photos. How his roll cage is built I don't know but I'm sure it would'nt be too difficult to comply with the rules. And it would make for one very interesting outfit. For the moment I think I'll go feet first. Or as a friend said "Luge rather than skeleton."
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You might want to check out the Gravity Powered Vehicle Association to see if they have an event in your area. It would be very informative for your project. The Luge Boards are really well studied.
Signal Hill might be the closest. One guy went from the top of Cajon Pass in traffic and got a big ticket for his trouble at the bottom. He displayed a copy all over to verify his official speed recorded by the CHP. The guy that stopped to pick him up got a ticket for stopping on the freeway. The cop was really mad and I don't suggest you go for that record. The next time the criminal might go to jail for hitting the Cop's night stick with his head.
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I tried to get the SCTA to set up their lights at the bottom of the pass. But they told me that their lights "could only time vehicles that approached in a straight line. So then it hit me! Put an engine in it. How simple and cunning. I know you don't like sidecars. But try not to think of us as such. Think of us as disadvantaged roadsters.
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HISTERICAL FACTOID # 979
Their timers work from point to point, reguardless of how you got their and where you go next.
Vesco on an open bike went outside the cones onto fresh dirt and turned in at the first photo cell and went diagonal throught the traps to also avoid the parallel ruts.
If they ever saw it , I would be surprised and nothing was ever said either.
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So thats the secret. Think outside the cone.
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Thinking will always do better first before you get to the cone.
While that is not a "Speed Secret" it does often escape those that refuse to get it in the right order.
Don't depend on the rule book or the rulers to do all your thinking for you because that puts you behind some that maybe didn't give it enough thought or bother to ask.
This place can show a lot of that. LOL :wink:
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Outside the cones is far from new. Paul Dearth did it in '63 when I was there with Bob Noice. I've seen Lattin do it and I told Andy G it would be a good thing to do in '84.
DW
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Geez Dan , you didn't need to tell all those to make the point ! LOL
You will also remember that Andy ran backwards from East to West and through the dip that scared many people off.
KC did it not because he thought it was better, but he was lost and crashed. :wink:
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A lot of build threads start and then just fade away. As this thread did. So here is the end. The sidecar languished for a while as my Norton was starting to run good. Plus I had a Triumph trans in the sidecar that had one forward and four neutrals. I located the AMC trans and made plans for it to come out to El Mirage this year.
The May meet was most embarrassing! I was thrown out of tech. There was a number of things that the inspectors didn't like. The main offense was the handlebar set up. Plus ballast on the sidecar platform. The changes were made for June and it passed tech without incident. I was running on a 101 minimum. The first test run produced 107. At the July meet it ran 111 and back to impound. But at the Sept. meet it started to find its legs. A run of 122.240. Needless to say I as over the moon! Oct. brought me back to earth. The wind and the dust slowed it to 112. Last week was a bit of a mess. A death in the family had me nearly not going but my wife said go as there was nothing we could do. Unfortunately one of the coil wires broke off and the result was a turn out.
A good end to a build thread.(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/749/img1216.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake), shot with Canon PowerShot A430 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+A430&make=Canon) at 2009-07-15
(http://)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7619/img033xd.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake) at 2009-10-24
(http://)
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:cheers:
Nortonist,
I got to tell you a short story. My first trip to El Mirage, last June, was my first trip to any land speed racing event. I was wandering around looking at all of the entries and I came across this vehicle like I'd never seen before, it was your sidecar! Out of all of the motorcycle powered vehicles at El Mirage that Sunday yours caught my eye.
I thought to myself "this would be a fun ride". I watched you run that day and decided then and there that I wanted to build something for the dry lake.
I ended up building a conventional motorcycle for ELMO but I just wanted to let you know that your sweet little sidecar was the inspiration I needed to get off my butt and getting something put together.
Hope to see more of you at El Mirage next year and congratulations on a very successful first season.
Buzz
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Hi Bill.
that is a wicked looking little toy,and it sounds like you are having a lot of fun with it,does that mean you have retired the solo?
Has any one tried using any of the late model racing sidecars for LSR,like the F1 type,they are long,low and very aero,saw a pic on the BUB meet thread and it looked like a LSR Racing F1 outfit,rumour has it had a blown hyaboosa engine it.
David
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Here are some photos of the sidecar rigs at the 2009 Bub's event. The white very aero rig is PeglegCraig's -- the rest I don't have names for. I am sorry that I don't have one of Bob Bakker's units here.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1039.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1031.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0997.jpg)
This is a detail shot of the rider's perch:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0998.jpg)
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Here are some photos of the sidecar rigs at the 2009 Bub's event. The white very aero rig is PeglegCraig's -- the rest I don't have names for. I am sorry that I don't have one of Bob Bakker's units here.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1039.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1031.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0997.jpg)
This is a detail shot of the rider's perch:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0998.jpg)
The White Turbo Busa Sidecar is owned and ridden by Fritz Egli I believe :wink:
Pegleg's bike is not pictured..
J
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You mean you couldn't read my mind and see the photos that I had in the iPhoto file of the 'puter -- but not in the Photobucket file?
Thanks, John. You're right about the Fritz Egli rig. As I remember he went pretty danged fast, too. And now, for sure, I've got PLCraig's bike photos here. And I found another one or two as well.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1083.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_1082.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0911.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202009/IMG_0912.jpg)
And I STILL didn't find one of Bob Bakker's rides. Sorry, Bob. His rigs are of the tradtional (I guess they would fall into the F1 category, as you called it), David.
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John said "Hey I got a turbo'ed 'Busa you can borrow and stuff in this!!" I said "Does it come with balls?"
(http://)(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/918/img1366.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake), shot with Canon PowerShot A430 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+A430&make=Canon) at 2009-11-16
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The #175 outfit is a LCR using 1000c.c. Kawa. motor belonging to Rick Murray and his passenger wife Nida.....it is a roadracing outfit.....with this outfit they have won several N. American sidecar roadracing championships. I was able to talk them in bringing their outfit to the BUB in 2008, they set a record and upped their record in 2009......they are now hooked on LSR and are planning on a special LSR outfit in the future.........The white outfit from Fritz Egli set the FIM World Record (pending) at 208+mph. Fritz indicated to me that for 2010 he will be back to go even faster..........Craig Anderson's sidecar liner only ran at the BUB's "run what you brung" to get the outfit sorted out and test the use of a chute on a sidecar outfit, he did run 158+mph..
For the 2010 BUB we expect BIG speeds in the sidecar classes as many of the outfits are now sorted out
and are ready "to go for it".
For the 2010 BUB event I will be increasing the dollar amount for the sidecar classes.......for the 2009
event we had 11 sidecars entered in various classes......so our efforts to get sidecars into LSR has been
somewhat succesfull...
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In regards to Rockstar's question about using a LCR..F1 type sidecar on the Bonneville salt.......wide tires
(tyres) do not work well on the salt.......the Murray LCR had so much salt spray off the front wheel that it packed the front of the fairing with salt to the extent that the front suspension lowered down allowing the fairing to drag on the salt............Yes, the Aero of the F1 fairings would work well.....but it would have to be mounted on a special LSR only chassis.........................................................................
PS. Hey, John N. I finally got my Brazil Visa........cost a arm and a leg.......be gone for 30 plus days
to S. America.......I know you will all miss me........B.B..................................................................
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Perhaps Herr Egli will bring this older design.
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Bob, thanks very much for all of the information. I was hoping to hear from you.
Going to Brazil, hey? There's a 14-page special section on Brazil in the Economist of last week. Interesting -- I learned quite a bit of the country and how it works. Looks like a good place to go -- especially if I were a decade or three younger. Have a safe and fruitful trip.
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Hi Bak.
Thanks for the info on the 175 outfit!.
David