Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: Joe Timney on November 18, 2011, 09:52:21 AM
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The new class will be for twin cylinder overhead cam motorcycles. The designation will be OCT. You will be able to complete in all frame classes with this engine. We expect a lot of older café racer style bikes getting dusted off and coming out to race with us.
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Sounds like a great idea. What do you think, Murf?
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I like the idea of this class. It was enjoyable watching that Victory Twin last June at Maxton.
This will likely be spelled out in the 2012 rule book but in the mean time I have a few questions.
Will OHC Twins be restricted to run as an OCT or can they elect to run in a non-twin class? I suspect some of the lower displacement class records for inline 4s or v4s might be in striking distance for a twin to hit the record.
Will a single cylinder OHC engine run with the 4 cylinder bikes or do they run with the OCT bikes?
In classes where dual engines are allowed, would a bike with two OCT engines still be in the OCT class?
Will the OCT engine classes include all existing displacement breaks? 50cc, 100cc, 125cc, 175cc, 250cc, etc., etc . . . .? Although I can't recall any 50cc OCT engine there were (are) 125cc OCTs. And, if OCT includes singles, there are some OHC 50cc singles
I am giving consideration to adding an OCT bike to my racing efforts next year. . . .
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Oh Art, let me share with you the probability that an OCT would be a threat to the other engine configurations in non pushrod classes that are over say, 500cc. NONE. Of course I would have loved to see this class 5 years ago; but it's still a great idea to also bring out all those Japanese bikes that aren't included in Vintage classes. I know you are better in math than to confuse single and twin -- are you working up to 2 single jug engines in one frame you "young" fox?
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Oh Art, let me share with you the probability that an OCT would be a threat to the other engine configurations in non pushrod classes that are over say, 500cc. NONE. Of course I would have loved to see this class 5 years ago; but it's still a great idea to also bring out all those Japanese bikes that aren't included in Vintage classes. I know you are better in math than to confuse single and twin -- are you working up to 2 single jug engines in one frame you "young" fox?
I am imaging your Triumph with either Da Murph or Thomas in the saddle . . .
Yes, I know the difference between a single and a twin. I can still count that high . . usually.
Actually I was thinking about a pair of Ducati 750s in an A (special construction) frame, naked on fuel. A/OCT F 1500cc
Of course I'd need to find someone to ride it . . .
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neither of the two pilots you mentioned would be a bad choice ... Joe
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Given my rather slow and limited mind, I hadn't thought about twins other than in-line until you mentioned the Victory. I thought my bike -dare I say it - with me up could have a chance to be competetive. Yes Deb has a far better speed on it than I do and Thomas would do better as well. My thoughts about this pursuit has changed completely after considering v-twins. SV-650 would be my top choice for several engine classes and power adders. The Victory is a great bike (if I ever get another big cruiser that's my preference) but it's not a Ducati or Honda SR51(?)
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RC51 - one of the most beautiful bikes ever made & I don't tend to prefer Hondas.
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And it doen't hurt that a certain American rider with the alias "Badger" took one to a world title :-D
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Cool news. - though I'm late to the par-Tay
I'm pretty sure there will be two Ducs out in July.
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You have to think that the 750, 1000, and 1350 classes will all be Ducati property. Just not many of the other twins that are that well developed.
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time will tell.
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Just to clarify
The new engine class designation is called "Overhead Cam Twin" or OCT. On page 80 section 7.D.2 is says the designation is T or TG for gas and TF for Fuel. So to run in the OCT class you put a " T "sticker on the bike ? Example would be Modified / Gas,750 Overhead Cam Twin. Should read . M/G 750 T and not M /G 750 OCT. I am printing stickers and want to check.
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You have to think that the 750, 1000, and 1350 classes will all be Ducati property. Just not many of the other twins that are that well developed.
You seem to be forgetting a certain maligned model of bike from a manufacture from Wisconsin.
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RacerX9623,
It would be M/TG 750/4. The designation is Frame Class / Motor Class, Fuel Type and Motor Size / Stroke
Joe
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Car class designations are easy compared to bikes !!!
See you all next weekend,
CV
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Ok thanks Joe ,I thought that the -4 would be redundant since it is an over head cam engine.
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I am not griping about the class. In fact I was thinking how great for my Honda Hawk, Honda RC 51's, and Suzuki 1000 twins, but then I thought about the Ducatis. Anyone with a spare $20,000-30,000 can go buy something that would kick my $1500 Honda's butt. I thought about the Buells and V-Rods, but they are not nearly as developed as the Ducs. The new 1199 is rated at 195 hp and a top speed close to that number also. The old 750 and 999 are in similar company for their class, just hard to beat. I am sure there are enough fanatics who will be out there trying, just had to voice my thoughts, but I am thinking the only thing that will beat a $25,000 Ducati will be a Ducati with $40,000 spent on it. There was the pushrod rule to keep the BMW's with tiny pushrods from killing all the Guzzi and Harley records, just wondering if there needs to be a desmo rule?
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Edlinr, in theory every race is lost before it is won. There is always the possibility someone with a lot of resources, skill, luck, and ambition can set the records up where no one can get them. There are a lot of classes and a person on a slower bike can set some records before the fast folks figure out what they are doing. The trick is to be quick and nimble and to get out on the track while you still have a chance.
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Charles, you and Joe Roberts both say bike classes are harder to understand. How is that? We use numbers for numbers and y'all use letters for numbers and letters. They didn't learn me that in school, but they didn't learn me much but what daddy learnt me with a tobacco stick.
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Wobbly Walrus
I totally agree about resources. The old saying "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go" applys in virtually all areas of racing. I was just whining that I can't afford a $35,000 bike. I agree that the early birds will get the worms. Hopefully the Vrods, Hondas and Suzukis can get in some quick hits.
Ed
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The term used should be; "Speed cost money. How fast can you afford to go".
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I'll be running a Duc in MPS-1000 and yes, I have spent plenty of money on this build just like just about everyone else here has, but I committed to building this bike long before the ECTA and LTA added twin classes that it could compete for records in. Before that, my only real shot at a record was with FIM at BUB. I didn't care, I just wanted to do a project with the local Ducati shop that treated me like a loyal customer even though I had never bought a bike there. Being able to have a shot at records is great but it is also possible that I will be sitting back and watching a more recent Ducati than my 996 put a whipping on me.
I am pretty sure I will need to upgrade engines to have any real shot at 200 down the road which is what most of my friends are more concerned about. Me? I just want to have a good safe weekend and hopefully beat what she did stock and untuned at Maxton about a year back which was 151. I have no idea what she will do with all these changes especially since I had several issues in October and never got a strong pass in.
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Milt,
Cool build and I "see" 155 to 160 for you this weekend,,
See you Friday.
Charles
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RacerX9623,
It would be M/TG 750/4. The designation is Frame Class / Motor Class, Fuel Type and Motor Size / Stroke
Joe
Car class designations are easy compared to bikes !!!
CV
Ohh my.....Modified Turbo Gas 750 4 cylinder is what I get from that!!!
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That is why I thought the OCT went at the end. Since A OCT is a four stroke . But after looking again the OCT is in the same place as the pushrods.
My only consern is that everyone get it right. We are starting a new record book with new class distinctions. It is all very confusing at first. But we need to double check this in tech. It will save work later.
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Luckily I paid gave my graphics guy a nice tip; otherwise, he may stop reading my email with these changes. I had the following combos made for Ohio and Loring.
MPS/G-1000/OCT
MPS-1000/TG
I think he just made me some
MPS/OCT 1000/G or something like that. Of course none had a -4 as I thought that was out for the OCT class. I plan on buying some one inch vinyl letters just in case
Looking back at pics from Maxton, BUB and Speedweek it looks like consistency doesn't exist at any venue as a lot of folks just try to get the right pieces to fit somewhere!
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OCT would not fit in our database so it was reduced to a T. A turbo would be a B for Blown.