rfross
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« on: July 12, 2011, 09:36:53 PM » |
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My 2007 GMC Canyon runs on pump gas which is legal for the 130 Club.
The rules state NOS, Nitro or alcohol is not allowed. Given that, if I want to add water/methanol injection in a 51/49 ratio, respectively, is that allowed? The fuel would still be pump gas but supplemented with a water/methanol mix.
Thx
Bob
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 09:38:46 PM by rfross »
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 10:36:58 PM » |
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Bob, does the vehicle have a turbo? why are you wanting to run water injection with a little alcohol?
Beyond all that, contact the USFRA, my bet is water injection is allowed.... they just don't want fuel qualified cars running 130 club.
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Stainless
MSA Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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gande
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 10:49:13 PM » |
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Methanol injection would not be legal for the 130 Club
Gary W
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rfross
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 05:34:58 AM » |
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Bob, does the vehicle have a turbo? why are you wanting to run water injection with a little alcohol?
Beyond all that, contact the USFRA, my bet is water injection is allowed.... they just don't want fuel qualified cars running 130 club.
It doesn't have a turbo or supercharger but I've done some computer tuning and the supplemental injection of a water/methanol mix through the intake tube will permit the computer to advance the timing more as there will be little to no knock. I haven't purchased one yet but I'm looking at a Snow Performance kit: http://snowperformance.net/ |
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Stainless1
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 07:21:19 AM » |
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You know Bonneville is at 4200 ft... you can advance the timing based on altitude without water and alcohol... but you would not need to add alcohol to make the system work.
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Stainless
MSA Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Builder of Bike 278 1000cc APS-G, Kids Red Hat Record 208.959 (old PS rules)
Other kids A-G record 179.172 Josh O record 182.266
Co-owner of the Amo Steele Streamliner, #1411... still sorting
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rfross
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 08:42:26 AM » |
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You know Bonneville is at 4200 ft... you can advance the timing based on altitude without water and alcohol... but you would not need to add alcohol to make the system work.
I've been thinking about just plain water, too, but then the benefit of the injection is not as great as a mix. And at that point the benefit/cost ratio isn't as good as if I could run the mix. The system I'm looking at is a little over $400 and compared to that price point I can spend a quarter of it on improving my intake with a low mounted ram air scoop. It wouldn't be as good as an injected mix but it would be better than what I've got now. I'll look at purchasing bits and pieces of a home-grown fully manual water injection setup that I can fire with a flip of a switch rather than a control unit tied into the MAF sensor like the ones on the commercially produced kits. A small nozzle, pressure tubing, pump, a reservoir and a manual switch is all I need as long as I remember to turn it off at the end of the run. Maybe even go as far as a full throttle switch to activate the system. |
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nrhs sales
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 10:36:23 AM » |
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Seems like you could just run the typical 10% alcohol infused gas most stations already sell along with water injection and do the same thing no?What am I missing here?
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Stan Back
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 10:42:21 AM » |
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I'm confused (what's new).
How much would you pick up by running the alcohol?
How much difference would it make in the limited 130 Club?
And why would it matter?
What part of alcohol is not considered fuel?
Stan
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rfross
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 01:50:24 PM » |
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Stan -
The water/methanol mix combined with regular grade gasoline provides as much as 116 Octane. Within limits, the computer on my truck will throw in as much spark advance as it can. If knock/detonation is not detected then it will keep advancing the timing until it is detected although there is probably some top limit built in. It's not unrealistsic to expect another 10 to 20 horsepower using W/M on my engine.
Bob
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 02:03:03 PM » |
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I believe this came up a year or two ago and the ruling that was applied was that alcohol, no matter how it is injected is still a fuel. Makes sense to me.
Pete
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dw230
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 06:32:52 PM » |
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Who is going to check?
DW
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Stan Back
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 08:45:02 PM » |
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There ya' go! What difference would it make? To who?
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rfross
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 04:07:33 PM » |
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I can see Pete's point. NOS is injected separately from the primary fuel and is not allowed so following that guideline injecting water/methonal separately would be identical and if treated the same, not allowed.
But as DW and Stan note, will it really matter once I get through tech inspection? The tank, pump, etc can be hidden away out of sight of the inspectors and given that, will it really matter? The W/M mix is not flammable by itself and is not a safety concern in the mix ratio of 51 water/49 methanol. It makes a great windshield washer fluid at that ratio, too.
But now that everyone knows about it in a public forum, the tech guys will probably be lookinng for me come September!
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38flattie
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 05:40:21 PM » |
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Seems to me, that if you have to hide it to get into the 130 club, your efforts might best be used to do it legally!
JMHO
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 06:51:12 PM by 38flattie »
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Glen
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 06:30:53 PM » |
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Cheating sucks
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Glen  South West, Utah |
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