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Author Topic: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank  (Read 428881 times)
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Sumner
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« Reply #2310 on: November 14, 2016, 12:37:00 PM »

Sid I think our question is not about 1-3 being capable but will the OD handle it.  I just talked to Hughes and they have 4L80E's rated to  1000 and 1500 HP and said they would not run either in OD at those levels, even on the salt.  This seems pretty common for OD transmissions.  Their recommendation was a 400 with a Gear Vendors which Sparky has,

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« Reply #2311 on: November 14, 2016, 06:00:02 PM »

Sid,  I have thought of it---I have 2--

 but I haven't  found Trans companies who would speculate how well the OD would hold up with 1000-1500 HP ---also the 2.48 low would could be a bit much  but it is something to REALLY consider---then with maybe a lower rear ratio  grin
The 4L80E O/D planetary is actually bigger than the G/V unit. Mate, you ain't gunna hurt one with 1500 puny's! rolleyes. If you're not game to build one yourself, any trans shop can freshen one up with a Hughes Red kit.
The high mileage used one hanging on the back of the Twin turbo Duramax was going to be a temporary to get it on the road 3 yrs ago & we figured once we turned up the boost & blew through the clutches we'd build a stout one. Well....after many drag strips, plus running Drag Week, plus a blown up engine, plus 30K+ miles & three sets of Hoosiers & a blown up Jones quickchange, it's still in there. shocked
I would have used one in the liner but didn't want to turn the T-cases & drivelines that fast so I went with a 400 & O/D's on the pinions.
 The G/V is the old Laycock unit from England that was in old Jags & BMC junk back when Adam was a cowboy, G/V bought the rights & tooling for them. I sure don't like the free wheeling sprag clutch for a race car.
  Sid.

Sid;

If the Gear Vendors overdrive really is the old Laycock de Normanville unit they must have redesigned it completely. Ferrari used that design on their 250 series street cars in the '60s (with a taller planetary OD ratio) and it didn't last long behind the 3 liter engines. That's rather odd because the Ferrari had only moderate torque but could rev to 7,000 or 7,500 RPM red line. So many eventually failed that spare parts became unavailable. Since it was built in Italy under license, some Jaguar & Austin Healy internal parts would fit but not many. I wonder how GV made it withstand 6 times its original rating?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #2312 on: November 14, 2016, 06:29:52 PM »

Also  Francis got  a little video of the car pulling away----we were very pleased with our dust trail behind the car---it appears to be very low energy---which I think I remember is what one is looking for--

Also feel free to jump in on my build with any comments about most anything---last I checked I could hardly remember   SSS cutting us off on many things!!  He may have warped opinions living way up north but mostly he just feeds the stove and pushes snow around in the winter  grin
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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« Reply #2313 on: November 14, 2016, 09:16:05 PM »

but mostly he just feeds the stove and pushes snow around in the winter  grin

Unh, Mr. Sparky, sir, I think you've got your order of importance a tad off-center.  Mostly i spend my winter (and summer) chasing Nancy.  On good days she lets me catch her.  The snow and stove can wait a while. . . evil evil evil rolleyes rolleyes
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #2314 on: November 14, 2016, 10:42:18 PM »

geezee the way you say that it sounds like you wouldn't be above whipping out your bola to increase your odds of being able to catch her..
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #2315 on: November 14, 2016, 11:50:28 PM »

Sid,  I have thought of it---I have 2--

 but I haven't  found Trans companies who would speculate how well the OD would hold up with 1000-1500 HP ---also the 2.48 low would could be a bit much  but it is something to REALLY consider---then with maybe a lower rear ratio  grin
The 4L80E O/D planetary is actually bigger than the G/V unit. Mate, you ain't gunna hurt one with 1500 puny's! rolleyes. If you're not game to build one yourself, any trans shop can freshen one up with a Hughes Red kit.
The high mileage used one hanging on the back of the Twin turbo Duramax was going to be a temporary to get it on the road 3 yrs ago & we figured once we turned up the boost & blew through the clutches we'd build a stout one. Well....after many drag strips, plus running Drag Week, plus a blown up engine, plus 30K+ miles & three sets of Hoosiers & a blown up Jones quickchange, it's still in there. shocked
I would have used one in the liner but didn't want to turn the T-cases & drivelines that fast so I went with a 400 & O/D's on the pinions.
 The G/V is the old Laycock unit from England that was in old Jags & BMC junk back when Adam was a cowboy, G/V bought the rights & tooling for them. I sure don't like the free wheeling sprag clutch for a race car.
  Sid.

Sid;

If the Gear Vendors overdrive really is the old Laycock de Normanville unit they must have redesigned it completely. Ferrari used that design on their 250 series street cars in the '60s (with a taller planetary OD ratio) and it didn't last long behind the 3 liter engines. That's rather odd because the Ferrari had only moderate torque but could rev to 7,000 or 7,500 RPM red line. So many eventually failed that spare parts became unavailable. Since it was built in Italy under license, some Jaguar & Austin Healy internal parts would fit but not many. I wonder how GV made it withstand 6 times its original rating?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
I did my apprenticeship in NZ working on BMC & Jag & had many Laycock's apart back then when they had high speed lubrication problems, the gear vendor I checked out when looking into them for my liner was identical to the late model J with the big pump & the 1-3/8 output shaft, they even have Laycock cast on the housing.
I really don't care to convince anybody of anything, this is just my opinion. They have a good reputation here in the US but I don't have them in my liner.
  Sid.

 
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« Reply #2316 on: November 29, 2016, 11:27:38 PM »

Conan i.n Kokomo In  has my dream T 400 --- 2.10 1.40 1.0  and with a GV .78  the splits are so sweet but ohhh so "dear"   about 6000.  of them
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 11:44:08 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #2317 on: November 30, 2016, 09:16:21 AM »

Versus how much torque & hp will that buy for the existing splits?  huh huh  Decisions, decisions - it never ends do it!  angry angry
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« Reply #2318 on: November 30, 2016, 11:09:06 AM »

Conan i.n Kokomo In  has my dream T 400 --- 2.10 1.40 1.0  and with a GV .78  the splits are so sweet but ohhh so "dear"   about 6000.  of them
I bought all the parts & built my own with the same ratios, all the best billet parts, straight cut planetary gears, 7 clutch billet drums, manual valve body kit, 300M input shaft, TCI direct drive plus an Ultra Bell & it still cost me $4900 in parts plus all the time to cut down the case cry & there's a right case & a whole bunch of wrong cases to use.
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« Reply #2319 on: December 17, 2016, 12:15:48 AM »

Well Ms Liberty just continues to slide dow the razor blade of life---we have the pan off and it is not pretty---we will be running next year with a fly wheel instead of a flex plate for a starter flywheel---
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #2320 on: December 17, 2016, 02:02:43 AM »

Because...Huh huh
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« Reply #2321 on: December 17, 2016, 09:20:41 AM »

Because...Huh huh

Sparky has decide that it is finally time to learn how to shift a manual  evil evil,

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« Reply #2322 on: December 17, 2016, 09:46:02 AM »

Well we have had another failure on the back rod journal---this time for a different reason--the rod bolts---I suspect that I haven't helped my cause by only running a flex plate back there---we will rebuild with a flywheel for starting purposes and may go to a manual as sum suggested---I suspect we need the mass for its gyroscope influence.

If we make engine changes we will also need trans changes to maintain a much more narrow operating band than we have possible now.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #2323 on: December 18, 2016, 01:06:27 AM »

... we will rebuild with a flywheel... I suspect we need the mass for its gyroscope influence...
I suspect you meant "mass for its rotational inertia influence"? The gyroscopic influence wouldn't seem desirable- the car trying to nose down or up in response to steering acceleration- or vice-versa, or- either of these responses due to engine acceleration/deceleration.
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« Reply #2324 on: December 18, 2016, 08:17:39 AM »

Jack,  you may be correct, about the terms  but what I think I need is the stabilizing effect of a large rotating mass on the rear of the crank which should help the rear of the crank only rotate an maybe help dampen hormonics in that area.  I have no engineer training ---but am tired of the school of knocking rods  shocked
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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