Race building a mod. B 4 cyl.

[racergeo]

 A friend wants to build a car for the V4F engine category using a model B engine. I know there are a number of necessary mods required to keep these engines together at higher HP levels,full pressure oilling, counter weights crank, light fly wheel,HP rods and light pistons. There are probably many others. Any insights. Who would you recommend as being the GO To shop for current mods to both keep the engine together and to get the most performance?  How many revs will they run up to in modified form?  thanks George

[wobblywalrus]

Please start a build diary.  My father had a chopped Model B and I am seriously considering one for my next build.  Building a garage comes first, but this is a minor detail.

[mkilger]

spend about 12 k on your motor and cross you fingers.

[maguromic]

I would become good friends with a cast iron welder or try and win the lottery.  I believe most of the serious V4F engines on the salt have had extra intake ports added.  If your going to that much work might as well step-up and go with a five main crank, girdle and dry sump it.  On top of this there is a whole plethora of other things that could be done.

As Mike mentioned, it boils down to how many $$$$ you want to spend. Tony

[jl222]

Please start a build diary.  My father had a chopped Model B and I am seriously considering one for my next build.  Building a garage comes first, but this is a minor detail.

  Isn't there someone who makes a hemi head for model A and B's lives around Paso Robles?

                    JL222

[dw230]

4-barrel Mike who logs to this board is V4 engine builder. Over on the HAMB there is a Banger thread, something about a monthly Banger Club. Check it out.

DW

[55chevr]

4 bangers are the highest cost per horsepower in racing. I considered building one and after working out the cost I changed my mind for a more modern engine.

[wobblywalrus]

The car land speed records are all well beyond my reach.  My idea is to build a low budget, sorta dented and ugly, mildly fast and reliable street roadster with hop up parts of the style used back then, like an OHV conversion.  Like the car my father built when he was in high school before WW2.  I would drive to the salt and back, and maybe make a run to get a time slip.  Hopefully a build diary would teach me a little bit.  I know almost nothing about cars or car engines. 

[4-barrel Mike]

Actually, I’m not really an engine builder  , although I’m learning.  The (street) engine in my signature line is babbited and has only partially upgraded pressurization (non-cross-drilled crank with dipper rods).  However, in 2008 it made seven hard passes, at one point hitting 4900 rpm, with no apparent ill effects (which may be more luck than anything else).

The basics of a “poor boy” engine are simple: 

1.  Upgrade the stock oil pump.

2.  Restrict oil pressure throughout the B block.

3.  Cross-drill the crankshaft.

I can scan the above info for you (it’s only a couple of pages).

I (and Pete Richardson) use the valve cover/restrictors from The Model A Works (503-284-1928) which incorporates a full-flow oil filter and allows adjustment of internal oil pressure (I limit the engine to 20# on the street, we turned it up to 50# from B’ville).  For my race engine, I had him machine the casting to facilitate a remote filter.

4.  Machine block for inserts.  Inserts & machining info here: http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/INSERTTECH.html

5.  I get my camshafts from Jim Brierley (a long-time V4 racer) jimb4e4@gmail.com.  He is an excellent source of information on building a V4F.

6.  Rod$  (Crower, Eubanks, etc) and piston$ (Ross, etc) are available from multiple sources.

7.  Bronze cam gear, big valves, blah, blah, blah.  How much you want to spend?? 

Info sources include:

http://www.hotforhotfours.com/ (F.A.S.T. [Ford A Speed Technology] magazine)
http://www.secretsofspeed.com/  (Secrets of Speed magazine)

Mike

[4-barrel Mike]

4 bangers are the highest cost per horsepower in racing. I considered building one and after working out the cost I changed my mind for a more modern engine.

While I don't have any experience with other engines, I know that for the money that I've spent on my 115mph V4F, I could have easily had built a 200mph engine (OHV V-8 or OHC four).

Mike

[panic]

But where's the fun in that?

If simple MPH per $$$ were the point, we'd all be using rent-a-cars with 500 hp nitrous systems for time only.
I want to design, built and own (unfortunately, can't drive) the fastest H-D flathead bike, and Paul Friebus just pulled the rug out from under me (he deserves it, it was a lot of work). If I'm really lucky I'll have 90 hp - or about heads up with a Ninja 250....

[4-barrel Mike]

But where's the fun in that?

If simple MPH per $$$ were the point, we'd all be using rent-a-cars with 500 hp nitrous systems for time only.
I want to design, built and own (unfortunately, can't drive) the fastest H-D flathead bike, and Paul Friebus just pulled the rug out from under me (he deserves it, it was a lot of work). If I'm really lucky I'll have 90 hp - or about heads up with a Ninja 250....

Exactly!   

Mike

[RichFox]

Some people save money by using engines that came with modern insert mains and full pressure from the (Plymouth) factory. And a crude but efective OEM bolt on counter weight system. They even get off cheap on OHV conversions by using a FoMoCo OHV V8 head. Others could learn from this, but nooo.

[dw230]

I just remembered another source.

H & H, La Crescenta, CA. I am sure they would have parts for a street engine and info on how to make a reliable lump in their product line.

DW

[Model T Steve]

I have run a Model A motor with babbit on the salt for many years. It is a lot of work, loads of money and a bundle fun. Don't forget the USFRA 130 club.