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Author Topic: Australian Belly Tank  (Read 1270595 times)
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #270 on: October 21, 2007, 03:19:05 PM »

Just curious where is the air intake??
.......also I think your trailer plates have expired,Sum

thanks for the positive comments peoples,  it means a lot. wink

at the moment the top edge of the throttle bodies are just through the cowl if you look at the striping shot you can see how close they are to the top of the hoop, we'll be making some sort of hood to sit over them, it 'll spoil the profile a bit.Some halfwit ( er, me) got his sums wrong when he made the plenum for the manifold and made it about 1/2 inch too high...that will change .I'd even thought in the meantime of just using an oval shaped Weber mesh filter to calm the air over the throttles.....

As for the trailer ...sheesh , the number plates on hire trailers are mostly decorative...most of them have expired rego
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.
Dr Goggles
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« Reply #271 on: October 21, 2007, 09:17:20 PM »

at the moment the top edge of the throttle bodies are just through the cowl if you look at the striping shot you can see how close they are to the top of the hoop, we'll be making some sort of hood to sit over them, it 'll spoil the profile a bit.Some halfwit ( er, me) got his sums wrong when he made the plenum for the manifold and made it about 1/2 inch too high...that will change .I'd even thought in the meantime of just using an oval shaped Weber mesh filter to calm the air over the throttles.....

Is this the right way to go?...I know we don't want the pressure up , we don't want the air going at right angles to the throats either...is a scoop that will turn the air down but allow it to flow around the TB's what we want?.....there are louvres behind there so it won't get pressurized......expert opinions requested wink

while I'm here , another shot from Sat..this time with the front up....

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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #272 on: October 21, 2007, 09:22:11 PM »

we pressurize the air going to the carbs/throttle bodies with an air box every chance we get, although it is only worth about 5-10 MPH...
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Sumner
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« Reply #273 on: October 21, 2007, 10:07:58 PM »

we pressurize the air going to the carbs/throttle bodies with an air box every chance we get, although it is only worth about 5-10 MPH...

I agree......you could have the air there separating from the body and not getting to the engine.....................here are some examples of what could be done.......

     

     

     

Maybe Stainless would enlighten us on the air intake on the Bockscar,

Sum
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #274 on: October 21, 2007, 10:48:56 PM »

Sum and Doc, As you can see in this section of our "trophy holding team" picture, the air intake is a NACA duct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_duct).  Properly designed, they present no drag, and are quite effective (if it is easy to paint, it is not working).  We have recorded positive pressure in the air box with the throttle plates in the vertical position. 
What else can I tell you?

sorry, couldn't get the entire pic to fit...


* intake.JPG (105.54 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 405 times.)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 01:53:19 PM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Dr Goggles
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« Reply #275 on: October 21, 2007, 11:22:06 PM »


     

Sum
thanks for the tips on scoops , a NACA might be just the thing for us , now ,I couldn't help but notice , this vehicle lacks something that is a common feature on pretty much every other vehicle , plane or boat bar Tanks and submarines with which it in fact seems to share a common feature wink
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.
sockjohn
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« Reply #276 on: October 21, 2007, 11:42:58 PM »


 

Sum
thanks for the tips on scoops , a NACA might be just the thing for us , now ,I couldn't help but notice , this vehicle lacks something that is a common feature on pretty much every other vehicle , plane or boat bar Tanks and submarines with which it in fact seems to share a common feature wink

Motorcycle streamliner with one as well.
http://www.arrowracing.org/

I would have to dust off a book to know for sure, but my fuzzy memory seems to think that a NACA duct works best in a high pressure zone, which seems to make sense.  I'm sure by the time you dig up enough information to make one you'll find out if my memory is correct or not.
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4-barrel Mike
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« Reply #277 on: October 22, 2007, 12:33:38 AM »

NACA ducts are pretty simple.  Here are a couple that I put in the hood of a factory turbocharged Alfa Romeo coupe for the Intel engineer down the street from the shop.  I used templates that he provided.

Mike


* NACA 01.jpg (13.29 KB, 395x531 - viewed 388 times.)

* NACA 02.jpg (22.81 KB, 600x491 - viewed 363 times.)
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Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!
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« Reply #278 on: October 22, 2007, 02:47:29 AM »

The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day grin
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John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #279 on: October 22, 2007, 10:22:21 AM »

The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day grin

And is not from a high pressure zone... a properly designed one creates it's own zone.  Ours is actually salvaged from an incident victim, and seems to work rather well... 
We have had other scoop ideas, but always came back to the one that gave us the initial success...
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Dr Goggles
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« Reply #280 on: October 22, 2007, 10:47:42 AM »

 I like the NACA's in the hood 4BM...  The idea of the NACA duct makes more sense to me as the disturbance to the shape of the car is less , obviously it ain't gonna work if we place it poorly. the "cylinder" of air that a 232 is using at speed is fairly small , our shape is pretty clean..hopefully we can get that air without having to stick something too far out from the car .

The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day grin

And is not from a high pressure zone... a properly designed one creates it's own zone.  Ours is actually salvaged from an incident victim, and seems to work rather well... 
We have had other scoop ideas, but always came back to the one that gave us the initial success...

I've "winged " a couple of overflyers but haven't managed to bring down anything on my plot that had useable ducts on it so I guess we'll have to shell out for some new ones to use. wink
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.
Stainless1
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« Reply #281 on: October 22, 2007, 11:07:56 AM »

Read the technical stuff on the NACA before you buy, many of the ones on the market are not designed correctly.  We had that experience....
Is there an AAF salvage yard on the island / continent?  They have had a couple of possibilities in the inventory...
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #282 on: October 22, 2007, 11:09:59 AM »

The NACA duct in the Bockscar is a Boeing design from a B52 bomber, we still hope to give it back to the USAF some day grin


Stainless,

  Nice of you to comment on you NACA duct. I've decided to use one on #72 G/GL and was not sure it was the best way to go. I'll be dumping it directly into a large air box that includes an air cooler exchange. It's good to get information from someone that is in a very successful group!

  Jon's Landracing site is a godsend to all us and really a bone to new builders, please support this site.

  Thanks to the Dr and the Rev for helping bring the lakester builders out of the "closet". Sum too!

  H
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #283 on: October 22, 2007, 11:51:23 AM »

Rev,
Don't buy any of the commercially available NACA ducts that you see on NASCAR cars as they are really junk. Carol Smith has the info for building your own NACA duct in his "Engineer to Win" book and the important things are: Locate the duct in an area that has attached air flow, make the edges sharp, make a nice radius on the upper part of the inlet opening. Not hard to make and you can actually make them with some aluminum and epoxy if you can't weld alum. Or do as Stainless suggests find a "real" duct from an airplane and use it.

Rex
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #284 on: October 22, 2007, 12:11:29 PM »

Oi Rex
I've got Engineer to Win but none of his others, I don't remember the NACA plans in it ...Yes I can weld Al( the Rev' would beg to differ)so I guess as soon as I can find the relationship formula( cripes , I've got the numbers wrong in that one before) for the NACA ducts somewhere I might have a shot.........I feel a project coming on evil

  Jon's Landracing site is a godsend to all us and really a bone to new builders, please support this site.

  Thanks to the Dr and the Rev for helping bring the lakester builders out of the "closet". Sum too!
H

Jon hasn't got back to me on this one but our idea for repaying Jon's efforts and the chance to tell our story in such a great forum is to sell our soon to be printed T-Shirts to landracing.com members and have payment made direct to the site , you get a shirt he gets a donation and we get the satisfaction of helping out ....
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.
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