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Author Topic: M-B_-500 #2300b  (Read 9848 times)
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SPARKY
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« on: June 15, 2010, 11:36:05 PM »

Well Sunday Joey and I  started our build using his ATK for a Modified Blown Gas and Fuel bike.  This bike has a 1 cyl 4?? cc Rotax for a powerplant.

We will be installing  a Garret T-2 and using the stock M38 Delorto in a suck through application. We will probabaly have to use a hybrid T-1.5 if we can't get it to spool up. 

Tonight we finished more or less striping the bike. We will be ditching the knobbies of course. We also replace the shock with a stiff leg. This dramatically lowered the bike and now he will rework the front forks to get to the final ride height. 

We will have several questions as we go along.  We are both novices on this turbo stuff.  I you can help us by your suggestions please jump in we have not done any of this before.  We are running on an open records and will be VERY suprised if we can keep it together much less get it over 120---

Question of the day will we probabaly have to re jet the carb?
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Dynoroom
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 12:08:14 AM »

Well Sunday Joey and I  started our build using his ATK for a Modified Blown Gas and Fuel bike.  This bike has a 1 cyl 4?? cc Rotax for a powerplant.

We will be installing  a Garret T-2 and using the stock M38 Delorto in a suck through application. We will probabaly have to use a hybrid T-1.5 if we can't get it to spool up.  

Tonight we finished more or less striping the bike. We will be ditching the knobbies of course. We also replace the shock with a stiff leg. This dramatically lowered the bike and now he will rework the front forks to get to the final ride height.  

We will have several questions as we go along.  We are both novices on this turbo stuff.  I you can help us by your suggestions please jump in we have not done any of this before.  We are running on an open records and will be VERY suprised if we can keep it together much less get it over 120---

Question of the day will we probabaly have to re jet the carb?



Maybe not. Depends on the amount of power you hope to make and may only require a small "tune up" to work. Remember the carb works on press. diff. in this/all applications.
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Michael LeFevers
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Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...
SPARKY
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 08:00:01 AM »

Mike,  That is we are hoping for, and we will plug check it as we go of course.

This bike has a single vertical tube frame that is the oil tank, the oil level is higher than  any possible turbo mounting position this brings up the # 2 question of the day.

Does anyone know of any small 12 volt pumps that would be suitable for a separate system or  as lift pump to return the oil to the stock oil system? we have a 12 volt transfer pump now we may try.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 09:22:40 AM »

Don't know if this would help or not, since you are pumping oil instead of water, but we used a bilge pump from a boat on a Rotary powered dragster to circulate the water since the stock water pump would cavitate at the 16,000 RPM we were turning the engine. Not really sure if a bilge pump would pump the higher viscosity or not, but it's an idea.   huh

Would love to see some pics Sparky!
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bak189
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 10:00:45 AM »

Depending on the model Delorto carb. (flat slide....round slide) you may have a problem with the slide
sticking with the use of a draw thru Turbo.........a very strong return spring might be needed or better yet
repace the carb. with a butterfly type carb. (small S&S......like a B model cheap on E-Bay)
We have a stand alone oiling system on our Turbo Kaw. using a electric pressure pump......I forgot the name.....will dig the bike out of the corner of the shop and let you know the company's name.....I do remember the company is in Oregon...........
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SPARKY
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 11:04:53 AM »

Great comments guys---we will post some picts after this weekend,  I think it has a barrel slide
 We  have NO experience,we are literally like a blind dog in a hanging meat house---we are excited about the prospects but do not know where to jump..  lol
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 11:50:54 AM »

Keep in mind that the Rotax engine you are using has a roller bearing bottom end (rod-bearing) with that type of bearings the oil-pressure may be to low to lube the Turbo........the Rotax motor is a strong motor and should be able to handle a fair amount of boost.
You can contact Tony Murphy at tmurphy440@aol.com  ..........Tony is the Rotax parts person in N.America.........knows all about your engine......has spare parts.....and spare engines........................
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 02:13:52 PM »

Last night we started in on the serious construction, we cut out the battery and air box leaving the Main frame and yupper and lower sub frames: that should absolutely have us in compliance with M-B rules about the stock frame.  As you can seethe Rotax has 4 valves on its single cyl.  We are hoping the dual header pipes of unequal length will help us spool the turbo.

The ATK was a serious desert bike with incredible axle swing travel and huge ground clearance; all we did was swing the arm all the way up and stiff leg it.  We are allowed to do what ever with the front forks they are in the process of being shortened.

Again boys and girls I am dumber than a box of rocks and ALL comments will be appreciated --thanks


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« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 02:26:29 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2010, 02:15:14 PM »

more updates:

Here you see why we cut the air and battery box out.  The heart of this little adventure a small T-2 we got from Jon Amo.  I suspect that it may be to large but there is a Hybrid T 15 that we can have built if we cant light this one off. We pressurized the swing arm and after we weld up some pin holes and install some fittings, Walla it is the oil tank for the turbo system.  We will mount a small pump below it and run the oil to the top turbo fitting and with the help of our friend gravity will it will drain back into the reservoir.

 In my conversations and reading the single cyl thread, I have concluded that I need at least 25 psi and 2-3 gpm of good synthetic oil.

Question of the day: recommendations on pumps and oil and comments about what else we need to consider---thanks again guys


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« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 02:41:37 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2010, 04:19:27 PM »


Does anyone know of any small 12 volt pumps that would be suitable for a separate system or  as lift pump to return the oil to the stock oil system? we have a 12 volt transfer pump now we may try.

The 88 KTM LC4 had a small 12 volt pump for the water system.  I think they switched to mechanical water pumps in 89 or 90.  I ran one on my Microsprint and it pulled power direct from the ignition.  Didn't need a separate power source.  Don't know if it will work as an oil pump.

Have you considered rigging up a car type dry sump oil pump that you could run off the end of the cam?
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SPARKY
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2010, 07:08:03 PM »

Any type of gear pump will have to be below the oil level although I have found one vane pump that is rated to 175 f
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
SPARKY
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2010, 12:04:37 AM »

Well Joey D and I  got really lucky today.  I found a web site with nothing but silicone hoses on eBay and in CO. and ordered the hoses to make this thing work.  Went to the steel place and found a 90 deg weld El that was slightly larger on one end and we to the local turbo shop, Turbos Direct and pick up a T2 flange. I used the die grinder to recess the weld El and walla -- we have exhaust plumbing we should be able to weld a tab on the curve of the 90 and bolt it to the frame. We used a cut off wheel to modify the exhaust flange and a vice, vice grips, and a ball peen hammer to fab the exhaust.

Will order the 12 volt tranfer pump from RB Racing on Monday

Oh by the way the name of our entry is BlackSmith Racin---go figure


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« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 12:17:41 AM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2010, 08:41:43 AM »

This is a really interesting project. cheers
Are you going to have room for a small intercooler? How much boost are you planning to run? Any upgrades to the engine? Valve springs, rods etc?
Considering the huge gulps of air that a single needs, especially once under boost, what are your plans for intake plenum volume?
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SPARKY
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2010, 09:11:51 AM »

 tongue This is a first for all of us---we dont know---Joey has this bike we know it is not the best choice  on gas we will most likely not run mor than 6-8 psi. If we can find the jets we might  try more on E-85, doesnt make much sense to us than a low bucks atempt on this one cyl. 
We are going to see if we can get the turbo to spool up with out an intercooler  if it does then we may try to intergrate the intercooler.  On a suck through we are wary of it.

WE WELCOME ---ALL--- thoughts and imput and questions that might lead us in the right direction.

thanks guys for your support and help
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2010, 09:16:04 AM »

Sparky,

That's what I like about this project, that it is a low buck build, using stuff that you already have and your talent to re-work it. That is the epitome of Hot Rodding!
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