SUMO
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Location: Dunstable, ENGLAND
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« Reply #165 on: January 31, 2012, 12:28:31 PM » |
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im building a complete test bed bike to mess with motors in. first motor im doing is using a set of 60's cases so if i blow it to pieces im not going to cry into my beer. and i can get the solo on a rolling road and see what we have done to performance. im getting 1 motor dialed in and then duplicating my best findings a couple of times
in stock format the panther motor cant pull full revs in top gear with a mass this big in it. i want to rev higher so i need to address that, we'll see if it works or not... its all to play for
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #166 on: January 31, 2012, 07:31:31 PM » |
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I think probably heavy metal could be used to achieve the necessary balance. You may want to look into that as well Tom. It's commonly used in drag race motors.
Pete
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My avatar shows Tok, a 100# Alaskan Malamute.
He's the one who runs everything around here.
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saltwheels262
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LORING 7/11
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« Reply #167 on: January 31, 2012, 08:06:49 PM » |
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what if you " pork chop " the flywheels ?
bf
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg 120" crate street mill
max 10/07 - a/pf d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf ran out of gear
lta '10 - 158.208 2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100 sweetooth gear
lta 7/11 -163.389 7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - 185.076 w/#684
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #168 on: January 31, 2012, 08:56:57 PM » |
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what if you " pork chop " the flywheels ?
bf
You just beat me to it. By the way, Sumo, I just watched the documentary video, "Hogslayer – The Unapproachable Legend", about TC Christenson's twin engined Norton. He lives down the road a piece - great guy. The bike is now in Birmingham at the bike museum. If I get down to Kenosha, I'll point out your build to him - I'm sure he'd dig it. |
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"Information - we want - information"
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #169 on: February 01, 2012, 01:46:19 AM » |
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My experience is the same as Tom's. The big flywheels are not a liability in an event with a lot of time and distance to get up to speed.
The old British bikes had advantages in power and handling over the opposition most of the time. I lost more races due to stuff vibrating loose, breaking, falling off, etc. than anything else. My preference would be the smoother running setup, either big or little flywheels. A bike has to run at full throttle for a lot of miles to set a record.
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SUMO
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« Reply #170 on: February 01, 2012, 02:29:25 AM » |
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if it doesn't work I'm not married to the lightened flywheels but we'll see
I spent some time on the phone on Saturday with the guy that built Pegasus twin norton in the 60s. learned a lot from him. he started on a panther as an apprentice. that is the fastest panther I know of. he shared some of what he could remember. he lightened the flywheels dramatically. I'm using his knowledge as a start point. ok so it was drag not lsr. but none the less it went faster than any one else's I know of since.
but this is the point of a test bed engine. people don't tent to tune panthers so there's very little in the way of "x works well" out there. I'm just applying old fashioned race stuff and seeing wha happens. keep trying till I get a fast solo bike then make another engine like it.
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SUMO
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« Reply #171 on: February 01, 2012, 02:45:20 AM » |
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what if you " pork chop " the flywheels ?
bf
You just beat me to it. By the way, Sumo, I just watched the documentary video, "Hogslayer – The Unapproachable Legend", about TC Christenson's twin engined Norton. He lives down the road a piece - great guy. The bike is now in Birmingham at the bike museum. If I get down to Kenosha, I'll point out your build to him - I'm sure he'd dig it. I watched that last week ha. good little film not heard of pork chop flywheels. just googled a couple of pics. what's the advantage? as for tc christenson. absolutely. if he would be kind enough to share a little twin knowledge I'd be happy to listen. if he'd rather email not use a forum if you'd pass on my address I'd very much appreciate it. vintagechop@gmail.com |
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panic
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« Reply #172 on: February 01, 2012, 12:08:22 PM » |
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Pork chop: lowest possible inertial mass, nothing structural except landing pads for the shafts and a web connecting the pin to the main.
Light wheels are definitely going to improve acceleration, but the advantage is lowest with tall overall gearing.
Flywheel inertia will also preserve your primary drive somewhat.
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saltwheels262
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« Reply #173 on: February 01, 2012, 07:38:46 PM » |
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Pork chop: lowest possible inertial mass, nothing structural except landing pads for the shafts and a web connecting the pin to the main.
Light wheels are definitely going to improve acceleration, but the advantage is lowest with tall overall gearing.
Flywheel inertia will also preserve your primary drive somewhat.
pretty much. a lot better for drag racing. but, 1 way to lighten them. bf |
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg 120" crate street mill
max 10/07 - a/pf d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf ran out of gear
lta '10 - 158.208 2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100 sweetooth gear
lta 7/11 -163.389 7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - 185.076 w/#684
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Old Scrambler
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« Reply #174 on: February 01, 2012, 07:58:37 PM » |
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I was visiting with TC at the motorcycle movie night last week in Milwaukee.............Just remember, he was the rider more than the builder...........Yes, porkchop the weights and work on the valve-train to reduce stress............you might consider diverters to keep the return oil from hitting the crank.........you may also be able to remove some weight from the piston.
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2011 AMA LSR M-PG/250cc
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Tofu
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« Reply #175 on: February 01, 2012, 09:48:25 PM » |
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I believe that this is the Panther sprinter referred to by Sumo built by 3 engineering apprentices, Derek Chinn, Mick butler and Ian Messenger.  |
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SUMO
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« Reply #176 on: February 02, 2012, 02:24:28 AM » |
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yep. that's the one. spoke to Derek. nice chap
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Jon
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« Reply #177 on: February 02, 2012, 03:58:26 AM » |
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To safely increase the redline I would be focussing on reciprocating weight rather than rotating weight.
Anything that changes direction will be stressed more as the revs increase.
Piston
Rod
Valve train
IMHO rotating weight will effect the rate of acceleration (mainly in low gears)rather than redline.
Just my 2cents worth.
Jon
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WOFTAM Racing, sponsored by Underhouse Engineering
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SUMO
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« Reply #178 on: February 02, 2012, 04:30:58 AM » |
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yep - im onto that too lightening timing gear, going to 1 piece pushrod not standard setup with heavy mid adjuster etc etc... To safely increase the redline I would be focussing on reciprocating weight rather than rotating weight.
Anything that changes direction will be stressed more as the revs increase.
Piston
Rod
Valve train
IMHO rotating weight will effect the rate of acceleration (mainly in low gears)rather than redline.
Just my 2cents worth.
Jon
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panic
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« Reply #179 on: February 02, 2012, 10:01:52 AM » |
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What do the rocker arms look like?
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