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Author Topic: STD Speed Team Doo is back for 2010  (Read 7815 times)
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Bruin
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« on: March 15, 2010, 01:27:43 AM »

We ran four bikes in '09, plan to do the same in '10. Ed got a record on his Trump 250, Harry made some feeler runs on his Suki 250, Tucker bettered her speed but her Trump 250 crapped out before she could back it up. I ran better than expected on a stock engine '82 XR 500 at just under 102 mph then blew the engine. But I just dusted them off and the prep for '10 has begun!


* Brian n Tucker.jpg (111.5 KB, 801x435 - viewed 248 times.)
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Bruin
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 01:21:14 AM »

In '09 my '82 Honda XR 500cc engine failed on the last run of the last day at about 100mph. KS finally warmed up enough for me to venture into the garage and take a look-see. It seems the piston siezed, the pin that holds it to the rod broke free of it and tore up the lower cylinder and beat the bottom of the piston into an unrecognizable mass. The valves smacked the top of the piston as well. Pin=trashed, Piston=trashed, Cylinder=trashed. Valves and rod need further assessment. If you don't break it, you aren't trying. I tried.  ~Brian


* DSC_0019_edited-1.JPG (175.76 KB, 800x452 - viewed 283 times.)

* DSC_0026_edited-1.JPG (239.53 KB, 800x579 - viewed 204 times.)
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Beairsto Racing
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 02:38:26 AM »

Do you think it seized from running lean or did it overheat? Do you run an oil cooler?
What will you do different with the engine rebuild?

Regardless, it sounds like you had fun and are making plans to return.
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Bruin
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 10:12:30 AM »

Had a ton of fun and will be back. The plug was not reading particularly lean. The engine did not radiate heat like it was cooking though I do house it behind a wind cowling. No obvious symptoms beyond running it above redline and pegging it. No oil cooler... yet. An oil cooler, no cowling, and maybe a little two stroke oil in the gas are under consideration.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Cajun Kid
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 01:25:17 PM »

Bruin,

It has been many years since I ran bikes... But love the old Honda "Thumpers".... you SHOULD run as big an oil cooler as you can for the extra oil capacity and the cooling.  You should also make sure that you can get some forced AIR to cool the cylinder and head.  If you keep a cowl or fairing,, OK,, just duct some air to that area.

Good Luck,

Charles
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ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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1212FBGS
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2010, 03:32:19 PM »

doesnt look like the piston stuck bad enough to break the wrist pin out of the piston... the underside or the piston definately doesnt show enough heat to melt i think you siezed the wristpin.... it usually happens when the wrist pin is too tight on a lsr motor.... the piston swells due to heat, seizes the pin, then cracks the piston.... in this case it looks like the wrist pin area of the piston broke... any other piston srapnell in the case we can look at?
you wann see a stuck piston go ahead and add some oil to your gas..!...lolololol.... go ahead and mix her really slippery at lets see something like 20 to 1.....lololo.... let us know how that works for ya...
yours in sport
Kent
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Cajun Kid
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2010, 03:37:35 PM »

I would not put any two stroke oil in the gas of that XR 500....

Just get an oil cooler and air flow to the head and cylinder areas.

Like Kent said. you could loosen the tolerances a bit on the wrist pin.

Keep us posted.

Charles
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ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com
Bruin
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 01:28:54 AM »

Thanks for the tips. I'l ditch the cowling and hold the fuel oil. Not sure how to rig an oil cooler on a wet sump. I'l have to look it up. The wrist pin itself didn't look scortched but I have not cracked the case yet to look at the debrie. The piston fell out of the cylinder easy enough and there wasn't the kind of galling you see when a cylinder siezes up good. Clues point to the pin as you said. However, the engine was run completely old stock with worn everything. Tolerences were loose, even smoked a bit.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Cajun Kid
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 12:43:49 PM »

Bruin,

I am not sure, but I think the Honda XR600's and XL's as well may have had an external remote oil cooler,,, you can see how they where plumbed in and use one of them.

I am not sure with the wet clutches if you can use Snthetic Oil ?  That may help too.  I just can't recall if the older Honda wet clutch would be OK with new synthetics ??

Charles
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ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com
Gu11ett
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 07:13:43 PM »

You could run a Barrnett clutch with a synthetic oil. Talk to some of the old desert racers that ran XRs, they used to run them wide open across the flats for miles.
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bak189
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 11:07:14 PM »

We had lots of wrist pin problems at first with our Turbo/Kaw. due to heat..........solve the problem with the best oil for racing....."old School" BEAN OIL......hard to find.....better than Synthetic and will work fine with a Barnett clutch...........bean oil can make for a dirty engine and will not hold water....so you have to drain it out when the engine is still hot..........but it will lube under extreme heat......put some of the new
fancy oils in a frying pan on the stove, turn on the heat and see where the oil run to......the sides......
use bean oil, it stays on the heat...................Hey, but then I am at 73 "Old School" myself so what do I know!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2010, 01:47:56 AM »

The picture shows a partial seizure on the Triumph gudgeon pin.  I pulled the engine down this winter.  The seizure was between the pin and the small end rod bearing.

I am one lucky dude.  A full seizure with everything breaking apart would cost big $.  Barrels cost $1,465, cases cost $4,265, a crank is $891, etc. 

South Bay Triumph in Lomitas, Calif. has a lot of experience with land speed.  They sold me a set of pistons and they strongly recommended that the pistons and pins be coated, and they did this.  It is a teflon coating, as I recall.  If you call them, ask for Matt or Carlos.  They know the details.

The new triumphs have oil radiators and two oil pumps.  One pump sqiurts oil directly under the pistons to cool them, like a Suzuki.  I was running a good quality oil, so lack of lube was not a problem.  The pistons have some minor scuffing with the classic pattern one gets when running a cold engine hard.  The pistons heat up and expand faster than the cylinder expands.

Drag racers run cold engines very hard.  Maybe one of them on this website will know about this problem.   

 

   


* Partial sieze on pin.JPG (58.94 KB, 448x299 - viewed 177 times.)
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Bruin
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 10:44:52 AM »

I've heard about coatings but our budget is tight. You wanna see a bad wrist pin... this is the suspected culprit.


* Wrist Pin Mail.jpg (122.45 KB, 800x581 - viewed 194 times.)
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
WhizzbangK.C.
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 05:42:33 PM »

I've heard about coatings but our budget is tight. You wanna see a bad wrist pin... this is the suspected culprit.

Wimp, that'll buff right out.

Time to tear into the spare engine and start getting it ready.

When do we get to see what's going on inside Tucker's 250?
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 10:59:40 PM »

Ed, what is the stroke and rod length on the Honda?  Were you using the Honda piston or a forged one?
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