Lectrons vs Injection at Bonneville

[besserspat]

OK here's a debate that may never end...

I am currently building a bike to run the gas 1350cc class at bonneville( I may run nitrous later) , the motor was never designed for fuel injection from the factory (suzuki oil cooled lump) so to fuel inject it, would be more trouble and money than I want to spend or have ...

that said , I know the altitude of bonneville and the tunability of the EFI motors make of fuel injection an appealing thing used strictly for lsr (Maine-Bonneville).

My heart tells me to go with Lectron carbs for the ease of " on site tuneability"  am I wrong? Lectrons never been know for super smooth transitional carburetion which may be crutial for the salt..

EFI is also more money that I can use elsewhere on the bike right now.

but I dont know a whole lot about LSR I know much more about drag ,flattrack and road racing bikes.

So please chime in with interesting stories, thoughts and proven set ups.

Cheers

[fredvance]

Your right the debate will go on and on. I'll tell you my story, I ride an '07 Hayabusa, all tuning was done at 500ft elevation. In July, 90dg temp we tuned for production class for Speedweek, set the record at 211+ with a best one way speed of 213+. Came home changed exhaust, couple of other mods to put the bike in APS, retuned at 95dg, went to World of Speed. I dont think we made a run when the temp was above 80dg. Set two records,213+ & 214+, best one way speed 219+. Took the fairings off for World finals, set two records 194+ & 200+. We did nothing to the tune for World Finals and most runs were made at below 50 dg. Could I have run a little faster if I had been able to log a/f and adjust, probably. Could I have done all this manually tuning a set of Lectrons, highly unlikely.

  Fred

[Larry Forstall]

Having run oil-cooled Suzukis at Bonneville from 1986 to 1997 I think you would be better off with Mikuni flat slides. Bolt them on and go, very little tuning necessary. We have run Lectrons and factory fuel injection on the same Busa at Maxton with almost identical results. Which is better? probably the fuel injection because of the factory ram air. Incidently Lectron was recently sold and now is based in Texas. Unless you already have Lectrons they would not be my choice. If you have them, buy a bullworker hand exerciser because the return springs necessary will have your wrist crying "no mas" by the four mile. Have fun, it is a great engine.  Larry

[1212FBGS]

had Mikuni's on my gsxr750 took em off and put on some 'trons..... lost HP!!!!.... took em off and tried Keihin's.... made 7HP more than the Mikuni's.....  'Trons may be simpler but they also make simple HP, pass on the 'trons
Kent

[Larry Forstall]

Kent: Why do 15 of 16 Pro Stock (4 cyl.) drag race motorcycles use lectrons when every HP is crucial and $$$ is no object?    Larry

[Stainless1]

Kent: Why do 15 of 16 Pro Stock (4 cyl.) drag race motorcycles use lectrons when every HP is crucial and $$$ is no object?    Larry

Cause they tune better than kent 
Maybe I should have used a ? instead of a  or the little suzy needed velocity and air...

[Dean Los Angeles]

Any body that still squirts fuel through a carb just hasn't figured out EFI.

Your reaction to changing weather conditions is your best guess with a carb, and only if you have massive experience with the jets, slides, needles, you name it.

Firing up the laptop to change the curve a repeatable and predictable amount, and that includes ignition too, sure beats recording every jet change along with the current weather conditions in some beat up black book. I still have my black books, all retired.

Yes, it still takes massive experience with either one to figure out how to best match weather conditions. Electronic feed back from an A/F sensor, air pressure readings from a transducer, rpm from a sensor, wheel speed from a sensor, throttle position from a sensor can all be fed to the laptop.

I really like Burt Monroe. Spent a bunch of time talking to him. Don't think seat-of-the-pants tuning is going to keep you in the record books much longer.

I'm surprised to hear that EFI isn't the pro stock motorcycle choice. I'm pretty sure that wasn't a carb I saw on that F1 motor. They DO have unlimited funds.

[Beairsto Racing]

Tell us more about your bike. What year GSXR is it?
-Scott

[John Noonan]

93-98 GSXR1100

[Dakzila]

Any body that still squirts fuel through a carb just hasn't figured out EFI.

Your reaction to changing weather conditions is your best guess with a carb, and only if you have massive experience with the jets, slides, needles, you name it.

Firing up the laptop to change the curve a repeatable and predictable amount, and that includes ignition too, sure beats recording every jet change along with the current weather conditions in some beat up black book. I still have my black books, all retired.

Yes, it still takes massive experience with either one to figure out how to best match weather conditions. Electronic feed back from an A/F sensor, air pressure readings from a transducer, rpm from a sensor, wheel speed from a sensor, throttle position from a sensor can all be fed to the laptop.

I really like Burt Monroe. Spent a bunch of time talking to him. Don't think seat-of-the-pants tuning is going to keep you in the record books much longer.

I'm surprised to hear that EFI isn't the pro stock motorcycle choice. I'm pretty sure that wasn't a carb I saw on that F1 motor. They DO have unlimited funds.

Dean,
Pro Stock Bike (PSB) teams, unlike some of the Top Fuel and Funny Car teams, have very limited funding. In fact most of the PBS teams live race to race and survive on qualifying and round monies to make the next race.  Sure there are exceptions like VHR and DSR (Schumacher) who are funded much better than the average PSB team.
You have to remember that NHRA has only allowed PSB to run injections since the 2006 season. The learning curve on transiting the Suzuki teams to injection has been tough and expensive. In 2008  Karen and Gary Stoffer started running injection on their bike and have some success.
To drive your point home. The VHR Team runs injection and I believe that some, if not all, of the Buell teams are running injection.  Take a look at which bikes that hold the records and win the majority of the races…….the injected bikes………and which bike won the 2009 NHRA PSB championship…..Hector Arana and a injected Buell……..

Buzz

[besserspat]

Tell us more about your bike. What year GSXR is it?
-Scott

If the question was directed to me, oil cooled GSX-Rs were made from 1985 to 1992.

The bike I hope to be running is a 1985 GSX-R 750 (yeah , one of the very first to be made).

It was a streetfighter bike before I decided to change it into an LSR bike wannabe.

it's 750 frame hugging a 1100 oil boiler bored to 1340cc.

My experience with lectron carbs in absolutely ZERO , so is my experience with fuel injection...

I just want a bike that is easy to tune and simple , I like simple stuff I can build and tune myself... ill be by myself on the salt or wherever Ill run this bike, so I need to be able to fix , tune and run the bike myself.

I can learn a thing or two...

 

[joea]

love the Lectrons.....thats what we used when we
set some nitrous records.......

simple and make great power as evidenced by nearly
all pro-stock Jap teams, pro-mod etc ....for around 20 yrs......

I prefer fuel injection now with turbo, and would also
on about any newer from the factory EFI bike, but on our shoestring budget
we enjoyed the trons....on the older na/nitrous bike....

[bak189]

Have always had good luck with Lectrons......You noted you will be by yourself on the salt....that means
you will be racing the BUB Speed Trials....all the other events require you have a pit crew to pick you up to truck and/or trailer your bike back to the pits and/or starting line.......(insurance you know.......NOT)

[besserspat]

Have always had good luck with Lectrons......You noted you will be by yourself on the salt....that means
you will be racing the BUB Speed Trials....all the other events require you have a pit crew to pick you up to truck and/or trailer your bike back to the pits and/or starting line.......(insurance you know.......NOT)

Ok , dont worry I know the rules and take this adventure seriously , I have a "crew" but they are more for logistics and moral support than mechanics , so Ill be the one tuning and riding the bike.

Maybe I should have been more precise.

[joea]

You noted you will be by yourself on the salt....that means......you will
likely be running SCTA speedweek......?......as you would enjoy all the
great support.......and easy to garner help........!!!!!!!!

(which by the way IS needed REGARDLESS of which meet ya choose....)

Joe