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Author Topic: newbe considering getting started.  (Read 4662 times)
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holland
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« on: January 12, 2010, 03:28:28 PM »

     i feel one of the things on my bucket list is making a run on the salt.         I've been drag racing   about twenty years now, 77 trans am runs in the high elevens. i sure feel the need to running flat out now. researching has given me more questions and finding this forum could help the answers come quicker. I've found some formulas that show my car with 485hp could go as fast as 180mph. other members here implied there firebird would need 800 hp just to touch the 200mph mark. i don't have the specific goal of 200 but i don't want to be less than 150.  now by looking at the rule book all the safety items i will need  for my class , record is 237mph, will cost me about $2700 not including tires. I've read about a, timed run only, needing to meet safety rules, but not needed to meet the max speed safety requirements of my class. my goal is to race there in three years,and  visit this summer and hang out in tech. so the question now is can you make a timed run for the experience only and can i Tell the guys in tech i know i wont go over  a certain speed.  and one speed formula i found shows that a 77 trans am with a coefficient drag of .360 a frontal area of 22.0 needs 542hp to reach 175mph another formula said with only 465hp i could go 175. any comments would be great.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 03:51:30 PM »

Howdy, Holland.  First things first -- let us know where you're located - because we've got folks from all over creation on this Forum and there might be someone near enough to your place that a visit or two could develop.

Then -- you aren't allowed the luxury of building for the speed you want to go.  When you choose a class you must build to the record speed in that class - which will probably mean roll cage, 'chute, fire system, etc.  There's no such thing as promising to the tech inspectors that you won't exceed such-and-such.  That won't work.

But -- check out the USFRA (their website is shown on the home page of this site).  During their event (World of Speed, usual;ly about the second week of September) they runm the 130 MPH Club and 150 MPH Club, and the safety equipment requirements might be more in line with what you're willing to install in your car.  The rules for those two clubs are available at the USFRA site.

Okay -- sit back and spend a few minutes reading what others have to say, too.  And welcome to this Forum.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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holland
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 10:07:58 PM »

Thanks Slim, I glad I found this site. Ive tried  to find some local racers who have been to Bonneville without luck.  First thing is that I'm living in eastern Iowa, 5 miles from the Mississippi. My home drag strip is Cordova Dragway in Illinois. Thanks again for the suggestion of USFRA, you are right about the safety equipment requirements are not going to be as demanding on my check book. There it is again "the speed limit is your check book". I have given this some thought, and agree with the safety rules that are used for LSR. I never realized how lax the safety inspection was at my track. I can think of two friends who wouldn't be burnt or dead if their car had a stronger roll gage and a full fire system installed. And even the smaller things I will change is that my steering lock is still functioning. There is a lot of things I will change on my car this year in the same of safety and common sense.                                                                                                                 Moroso has a drag strip slide rule that I have, what do you guys have to estimate how fast you can go. If my car will do 176mph I want to go on the long track. How do I know if I have enough power to least do that?          And if I need to plan on racing at the USFRA event can I still use this forum or is there another that I should use. Thanks...
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Bville701
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 10:16:10 PM »

Holland,
Welcome to the forum. At Speed Week we usually have two course, one long course of 5 miles and a short course of 3 miles. In order to run on the long course you must qualify with a speed of 175 MPH in the 2 1/4 on the short course. Once you have done that, then they will let you run on the long course. I would also suggest getting a rule book if you don't already have one. Good luck with your project and welcome to the forum.  cheers
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Ryan LeFevers

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jacksoni
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 10:28:05 PM »

I run and '87 Firebird- a bit (maybe lot) more slippery than the earlier years. About same weight and frontal area. My engine on good day might make 300-310.  Just kissed 170 this year.  Have a friend with same model running C/production with maybe 525 ( I don't remember his dyno numbers off hand) hittin 183 at Maxton in the mile with lots of traction and gearing issues. You will have no trouble with 175 and I'd say 200 maybe possible.  But to run in an SCTA meet you have to meet all the safety requirements as noted.  I'd say try to get out for a USFRA meet and do the 130 and then 150 clubs. Look up their requirements on web page as noted. Then you can decide if you want to go up from there.  Salt gets in your blood though so be prepared to get hooked! smiley
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Jack Iliff
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holland
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 10:37:19 PM »

      Yes I do have a rule book, Its done well. Another thing I have been wondering about is the fuel. at present time my motor needs 100 octane. What is the rule about having the fuel tested. Is that for a record run only. I'm I understand that right that all the records are set with a certain type of gas.(that is if your using gas). If Obama gives me another BIG stimulus check and built a motor for the record and I would need about 1100hp to do this. Can it run high octane
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Stainless1
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 10:50:23 PM »

Holland, you are in the right spot and USFRA is a great place to start your addiction.  If you want to know if your car will go 176 you will have to run it on the salt.  The 150 club lets you run 159.  That will get you a really good baseline.  If you run out of power, there are several formulas on this site that will tell you how much more HP you need to go a faster.  HP to speed is not linear....
If you have time in Aug and Sept, come to speedweek, see what it is about.  Bring the car to WoS in Sept, run it in the 150 club.  Rules on the USFRA site, just don't be too surprised if you don't make it to 150.... you are timed after the 2 to the 2 1/4, it is not as easy as many think.  Read the rules, have some fun, stop by and say hi.
Then if you are addicted to speed, start building... safety equipment estimate may a couple of grand low... how's your cage...

The lowest octane fuel available from ERC is 100.
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 07:45:43 AM »

Also, Holland, Keith Turks Camaro that became the Hot Rod Special is same vintage as yours. There is a Hot Rod Article about the aero changes he made that got the Cd down in the low .22-.24 range. It can be done. I agree totally with Stainless.

At Bonneville you have to run ERC gas but they have anything you want Octane wise. It is good race gas.  If you want to run your own gas, you will be in a "fuel" class.
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Jack Iliff
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 11:55:08 AM »

You can run your own gas at Bonneville.  You don't have to buy the event gas.  But to run for record-qualifying, or record runs, you must run the event fuel which come in a variety of flavors.  If you're running 50 mph under the record, run what you want -- although it's nice to give Rick the business.
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holland
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 12:16:15 PM »

Again I say thanks for all the input. A forum like this makes it so much easier to get started. I will be out there this summer watching and learning. another thing I would like to ask is what would make a car ,not legal for any class but still meet all tech rules. The book says it may still make a "timed only" run. What does this involve and how do they decide  the tech requirements. Is it as simple as bringing your fuel making me not legal for a class record or is there more to it.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 12:22:35 PM »

holland; The gas available at Speedweek and other meets is high octane. Greater than what you can buy from a pump. ERC 110 is very common. If your car meets all the safety requirements but has some body mod or such that is not allowed in the class rules 7you would run as Time Only. Your car should be easy to make class legal.
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jacksoni
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 12:25:00 PM »

with few exceptions, purpose built race cars NOT based on a production body will not be legal. I exclude purpose built land speed racing cars- lakesters and streamliners.  This would include examples such as current "nascar" type cars, most dirt/pavement oval track cars ("late model sportsmen etc"- hope I have that right) , most sports racers and "formula" cars such as SCCA and similar cars not based on production cars. If was based on something you can buy in normal dealer showroom available to the public, you can make it legal. However, certain body modifications are not allowed ( generally considered streamlining).  It is fairly easy to sort out these issues to make it OK though. Your car should be easy to make legal, even if it is not now due, for instance, to a spoiler/wing or other body modifications ( unless you have really massaged the back of the car and don't wish to undo it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 12:27:52 PM by jacksoni » Logged

Jack Iliff
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2010, 12:28:23 PM »

Holland, Rick Gold - ERC Fuels, the fuel vendor at Bonneville - also sells a pair of unleaded (oxygenated) fuels.  I think they're 100 and 104 octane.  MUL-A and MUL-B.  Am I right, fellows?
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »

"Any vehicle which is not legal for any class, but meets all technical regulations, may be allowed to run for time only. No trophies will be awarded for “time only” entries. Any questions regarding the proper classification of a vehicle shall be directed to the class chairperson as listed in Section 16."

Above is the paragraph from the rulebook dealing with "time only" entries.

Generally, if a car is purpose built for a different race series, NASCAR, Legends, etc., it is allowed to run with no changes. If it is a street car it must be built to include the safety items of the class record it most closely represents.

Try these guys:

Coupe & Sedan Category Chair:
Bobby Sykes, Jr.
714-527-6250 after 5 PM PT
email questions preferred
drylakes207@yahoo.com

GT/Modified Sports Classes Chair:
Jim Miller
818-846-5139 hm/fax
miller212.842@sbcglobal.net

DW
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 01:01:14 PM »

I think the mul-a is no more the B is what we ran last year, I am not sure what the octane #is. Worked good for us!! grin

  Fred
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