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Author Topic: BBarn and Robfreys A/BG liner  (Read 12510 times)
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stratman59
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 04:52:48 PM »

Robfrey,

I was questioning you just trying to learn myself.

Robbie
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 06:14:13 PM »

I can see this thread turning into another of wild speculation, guesswork etc. as to what works correctly for a 400 mph wheel-driven device.

I'd suggest buying SAE paper 649B from SAE International since it describes the methods used to sucessfully acheive an FIA interntionl record over that speed and, if it fits your packaging requirements,  purchasing one of Kent Riches bodies.
The various examples of Lynn Yaekel's designs have gone closer to 500 mph than anyone and seem to have no bad aero vices.

Getting the absolute optimum slippery shape may not be any more important than assuring yourself of driveline durability and getting the power to the ground.


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bbarn
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 06:45:23 PM »

I can see this thread turning into another of wild speculation, guesswork etc. as to what works correctly for a 400 mph wheel-driven device.

I'd suggest buying SAE paper 649B from SAE International since it describes the methods used to sucessfully acheive an FIA interntionl record over that speed and, if it fits your packaging requirements,  purchasing one of Kent Riches bodies.
The various examples of Lynn Yaekel's designs have gone closer to 500 mph than anyone and seem to have no bad aero vices.

Getting the absolute optimum slippery shape may not be any more important than assuring yourself of driveline durability and getting the power to the ground.


IB, do you have any pics of Lynn's cars? I did a quick search and didn't find anything, I would be very interested to see some of his design ideas. We are interested in gathering as much information/data as we can.

I'm in your camp with your second paragraph, hook-up enough power and aero becomes a bit less of an issue. Although, it's hard to ignore the efficiency tax of bad aero design.
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2009, 06:57:44 PM »

Yaekel designs?

 Where do you start?

Probably in the Bonneville record book.

Vesco, Nish, Ferguson are names that come to mind on that list. Maybe Hedrich too (not sure).

See the pictures of the last SCTA meet for the new streamliner Mr Riches has the molds for.

Good luck!
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bbarn
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 07:13:56 PM »

Yaekel designs?

 Where do you start?

Probably in the Bonneville record book.

Vesco, Nish, Ferguson are names that come to mind on that list. Maybe Hedrich too (not sure).

See the pictures of the last SCTA meet for the new streamliner Mr Riches has the molds for.

Good luck!

Got it, I didn't make the association of Yaekel with those cars/teams, I'm new to this and still learning names.
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2009, 07:17:06 PM »

Bbarn,
"I'm in your camp with your second paragraph, hook-up enough power and aero becomes a bit less of an issue. Although, it's hard to ignore the efficiency tax of bad aero design."  

This is your quote. You may want to reconsider the cost of bad aero at the speeds you are talking about. If you have 3000 hp and go 400 mph you will need 4270 hp to go 450! Probably more than you can get by just screwing in the boost knob on your big block.

IB's comment regarding looking at Lynn Yeakel designs has alot of merit you may also look at the Burkland's car which has gone 454 and also the Poteet/Main car and the Spirit of Ret all 400 mph cars. Looking at your concepts it is the back of the car that is most important and if you look at any of the above mentioned cars and also Jack Costella's cars none of them have the type of rear end treatment that you are proposing. The idea is to split the air let it pass around your car and then blend it back together with the lest turbulance, the configuration of the rear of your car will not do this.

Again I would recommend contacting "Blue" on this site and see if you could get him to assist.

Rex
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robfrey
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2009, 07:20:23 PM »

Good aero probably won't add significantly to our overall cost. Lets get it right or at least as close as the computer says we can within the given design criteria.

It's always been my approach to racing to not copy what has been done before. If you only copy, how could it be better than what's already been done. That's what I like so much about LSR. It seems that everybody has their own idea on what works. No cookie cutter cars like Nascar or NHRA.
All that being said, there something to using a well tested body and installing the biggest hammer we can. LOL. I think that the biggest problem will be that there is probably not a body available that will hold all the crap we got to put in there. We need a lot of ice water on board. Also intercooler, pumps, electronics, etc.

I think what we have already designed would work but now is the time to optimize or make major changes.

Now, what is the easiest way to get this model into a simulator and start tweaking. We know the air intakes are way too big so I will have to fix those first.
Should I route the air intakes out the side of the body where I expect the exhaust to exit for more accurate simulation?  Ex volume is actually three times intake volume but it might be better than doing nothing.
Of course who does this simulation work and how much does it cost? What format should it be in? What kind of accuracy can we expect?
Should we buy a copy of the program itself? How much is it? Might be worth it's weight in gold?
Thanks for all the input so far, we do appeciate!
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2009, 07:55:34 PM »

lets run at night  evil
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2009, 07:58:52 PM »

It's always been my approach to racing to not copy what has been done before. If you only copy, how could it be better than what's already been done. That's what I like so much about LSR. It seems that everybody has their own idea on what works.

If I had a dollar for every one of them and a debt for everyone who had proof I'd build my own top end contender........ grin


It's not copying per se Robfrey it's about refining ...the hard part about that is knowing why some things worked and others didn't ....there's a lot to get through.......
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2009, 08:04:42 PM »

Rex, I wasn't discounting aero as a whole, I'm just thinking that we are on at least decent footing with our basic design. Aero is a factor, if it weren't, bricks would go as far as arrows. I'm sure that some WT time will shed light on what we think will happen vs what will happen. Trust me, from a pilot's perspective, aero is a BIG deal.  wink


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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2009, 08:10:24 PM »

lets run at night  evil

I'll install the headlights, that's item 3,246 on the task list!!!
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2009, 08:38:40 PM »

  I am having trouble with NA- sad---- now you want me to BOOST so the sun will shine on the SALT   huh
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2009, 09:44:15 PM »

  I am having trouble with NA- sad---- now you want me to BOOST so the sun will shine on the SALT   huh

Just saying once you've had boost, it's hard to go back (to NA)!
To quote Jake Blues- "I have seen the light!"

I understand it's not about copying but refining. Everything we do in LSR is refining to some point. Correct? EFI is just a refinement on the carb. Still adding fuel to our air, correct? To me, how much do vary from the beaten trail is the real question.
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2009, 09:56:59 PM »

Alright Sparky,
I changed my signature not to offend any of you NA guys.
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2009, 08:36:12 AM »

 huh offended ----not offended just a warped sense of humor lol   grin grin we are working on getting the parts to gether for a BOOSTED truck!!!!!!!
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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