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Author Topic: Car 495 - Small Gas Coupe  (Read 24361 times)
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Polyhead
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« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2016, 07:59:48 AM »

Knocking off items from the to-do list.  A lot of ten minute jobs that end up taking three or four hours each .  Such is life . . .  However slow -  it is getting done.   Today mounted the battery.  Per the rules  "All batteries shall be properly secured with metal framework and fasteners."  While I am not sure what constitutes "properly secured" I think this will do the job.  The key component is a small aluminum loaf pan secured to the fender well with all thread, wing nuts and some flat steel.  The battery is a new GEL cell from a GSXR 750. 

There is a steel bracket attached to the bottom of the pan (not visible in photo) and fastened to the fender well.

Also have most of the exhaust system fitted up.  Will post photos after the brackets are fabricated and installed.

Love the mounting buuuuuut... You do know that gel cells have different charging characteristics from an AGM or flooded cell battery right?
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2016, 12:05:03 PM »

Love the mounting buuuuuut... You do know that gel cells have different charging characteristics from an AGM or flooded cell battery right?

Different charging characteristics??  No.  I did not know that.  Time to do some googling.  Thanks for the heads up. . . . .
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Polyhead
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« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2016, 02:55:42 PM »

Love the mounting buuuuuut... You do know that gel cells have different charging characteristics from an AGM or flooded cell battery right?

Different charging characteristics??  No.  I did not know that.  Time to do some googling.  Thanks for the heads up. . . . .

Yeah, gel cell batteries run a lower voltage because boiling the electrolyte or producing hydrogen leaves bubbles in the gel.  12.7 volts is peak voltage on a gel cell vs. 13.2 on an agm or flooded cell.

If it were me, I wouldn't touch gel cell.  Agm is superior in every aspect.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2016, 08:26:02 PM »

Some of the concern about differ battery types depends on the vehicle.  Both of my modern 2003 and 2007 Triumphs have used gell cell lead acid, conventional lead acid, or lithium ion batteries with no problems.  The charging system self adjusts to their very different needs.  As I am told, older bikes with mechanical regulators need to be updated to give the charging system these abilities and the parts are available.  Maybe some of this applies to the car world.
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Polyhead
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« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2016, 09:27:57 PM »

Some of the concern about differ battery types depends on the vehicle.  Both of my modern 2003 and 2007 Triumphs have used gell cell lead acid, conventional lead acid, or lithium ion batteries with no problems.  The charging system self adjusts to their very different needs.  As I am told, older bikes with mechanical regulators need to be updated to give the charging system these abilities and the parts are available.  Maybe some of this applies to the car world.

Oh it certainly could but would be kind of complicated.  But really all you need between the battery and the charging system is some sort of Gel Cell charging circuit.  Basically it just needs to limit charging current and cut the voltage off a bit sooner.  That's pretty easy to do.  Going up in voltage, kind of complicated, going down, not a big deal.

Because I am a ham the links i have available on the subject are all ham radio related.  They use to be really popular in the hobby but have given way to AGM.  AGM is tougher and can be treated more carelessly during charge and discharge.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/gel-vs-agm.html

I think using a gel cell for a staring battery is just plain dumb.  I can't believe any motorcycle would choose them over AGM.  AGM has higher power density, higher discharge rate, higher charge rate, more vibration resistent and like a gel won't leak.  The only thing gel cells accel in is cycle life, but not by much when deep discharged.  We are talking 10 to 15% longer cycle life for gel compared to AGM. (Gel has more electrolyte in it than an agm does and that's why)
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2016, 12:42:02 AM »

As far as the battery goes, worst case, I'll get another.  They are all the same size so the mounting, wiring etc will not be a problem.

Today I finished the instrument panel and will post that tomorrow.  I would post it now but photobucket web site is down and I can't upload pictures.  Hopefully it will be up tomorrow . . . . .
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Polyhead
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2016, 01:30:38 AM »

As far as the battery goes, worst case, I'll get another.  They are all the same size so the mounting, wiring etc will not be a problem.

Today I finished the instrument panel and will post that tomorrow.  I would post it now but photobucket web site is down and I can't upload pictures.  Hopefully it will be up tomorrow . . . . .

Well you can run what you have, just, you know, take a spare just in case.  It would likely survive a month of that kind of abuse in daily use.  It's not going to burst into flames, it's just going to suddenly not work one day.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2016, 10:54:07 AM »

Instrument Panel and Switch gear:
 While assembling this car I have tried to use the original Geo Metro driver inputs.  Gas pedal, Brake pedal, Clutch pedal, shifter and steering wheel are all original Geo Metro.  For the gas pedal the Geo throttle cable mates with the motorcycle cable with a simple connector.  A similar approach was taken with the clutch cable and the shifter linkage.  
For the gauges and ignition I have taken a different approach.  These are not Geo Metro parts.  All the Geo gauges and switches were tossed and I have mounted the motorcycle parts in the driver compartment.  
Also I have followed the “bake-ware as hardware” approach.  This time I used a 16 inch pizza pan as the instrument panel.
The first photo shows the components from the Suzuki GSXR750 which are the tach/instrument piece and the switch module from the right hand end of the handlebar.  Also shown is the uncut pizza pan.  I think it cost about $7 on sale at the local supermarket.  

The tricky part was mounting the switch module.  I created a stub handle bar piece from a short section of aluminum tube left over from a busted panhard bar.  The fit was not tight so I added a bolt to prevent the module from rotating on the bar.  The bolt in the photo was replaced with one that was the correct size.  Two ¼ inch bolts through the bar ends secure the module to the pizza pan.

 
I added some light aluminum angle stock to stiffen the panel.

I like this approach because it is simple, cheap, and puts the on off switch near my right hand while holding the steering wheel.  I may add a toggle switch to kill power to the fuel pump.  Hitting the kill switch should will also shut down the fuel pump so the toggle switch for fuel pump will only be needed if the main switch fails.

The panel attaches to the steering column with a u bolt.  

I am using an Woodcraft Keyswitch Eliminator harness to directly wire the right bar switch module to serve as the sole on/off control.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 10:57:06 AM by LittleLiner » Logged

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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2016, 11:13:51 AM »

LL;

Very clever!  cheers

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM »

LL, can any part of your legs get up near the pizza pan?.
The sharp bottom edge worries me and we don't want you getting cut
if things get dodgy. I hope they don't but........

Great innovation brother and I love the way make us of what's available. cheers cheers cheers
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LittleLiner
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« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2016, 04:40:48 PM »

Fuel pump and Fuel Cell:
I removed the stock gas tank and all the pump gear and fuel lines.  A one gallon aluminum fuel cell will be used.    The Suzuki bike fuel pump is mounted in the fuel cell.  To attach the fuel pump an opening was made in the bottom of the fuel cell and a section of the bottom of the bike fuel tank (the blue thing) was bonded to the fuel cell. 




This allows for a direct bolt in attachment of the Suzuki pump.  For this to work I had to find a fuel cell with a flat bottom surface.  One with a sump shaped bottom would not have enough surface area to fit the pump mount. 



I disassembled the fuel pump, removed the fuel level sensor hardware (it did not fit in a 1 gallon tank) and cleaned the fuel strainer.   I put the pump back together and installed it in the fuel cell.  I fabricated a second steel strap to hold the cell and fit a filter to the end of the overflow tube. 

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LittleLiner
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2016, 04:48:41 PM »

Mirrors . . . or the lack there of . . .

Made a template for a block off that covers the opening left when removing mirrors.  Was going to use some thin aluminum plate but after looking at the template I just decided to rivet the templates on the door. 


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LittleLiner
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« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2016, 04:55:21 PM »

LL, can any part of your legs get up near the pizza pan?.
The sharp bottom edge worries me and we don't want you getting cut
if things get dodgy. I hope they don't but........

Good point . . .I'll deal with the sharp edges to prevent any chance of injury. . . .thanks
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« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2016, 06:43:27 PM »

Ummm great build, lots of brain work.

But I don't see a roll cage,,,, did I miss something. Around our parts, we build the cage first cause there is always a fit problem with seat and fire systems and everything else   
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Tony Huntimer
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« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2016, 04:34:35 PM »

Ummm great build, lots of brain work.
But I don't see a roll cage,,,, did I miss something. Around our parts, we build the cage first cause there is always a fit problem with seat and fire systems and everything else   

This car is being built to run in Ohio with the ECTA (1.0 mile) and maybe also with the LTA in Maine (1.5 mile).  Under those rules roll bars and roll cages are not required for cars running slower than 135mph. 

That said . . . . I do have a roll bar kit with the main hoop and supporting bars that could be installed if I do decide to use one.

At this time there is no plan to run El Mirage or Bonneville with this car.  If the car were to run with the SCTA it would require a full cage, upgraded seat with head retention and a fire system. 
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