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Author Topic: Aussie Oval  (Read 13231 times)
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T-34
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« on: November 03, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »

G'day all, Greetings from down under.

Building a project for next years speed week here in Australia, one of the guys from the DLRA forums mentioned landracing.com as a pretty good resource, so thought I'd drop in and say hi.

My project is based around a '56 oval windowed beetle. The engine is a Type 4 based 2.7 litre turbocharged with EFI from another car of mine. not sure where to go with gearbox yet.

Got a whole load of stuff to do before it's ready, and no doubt lots of questions.

Here's some pics...







Plans are to split pan from body and replace pan halves, rebuild / replace brakes and suspension, bolt it back together, stick in a cage, safety gear, the engine and box and then have some fun.

(Sounds so easy when you say it fast.)

 grin

Mick Percy.
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Stainless1
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 08:10:49 PM »

3 inch chop and a tube chassis.... will be a lot stiffer for going fast
good luck with your project
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Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 08:12:00 PM »

My first car was a oval window beetle.  I worked at a VW dealer one summer.  The type 4 was a favorite for the base of a race motor.

Wow!  Ther's a Jagular behind the VW!

Welcome to the site.  Looking forward to the build.

Geo
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 08:13:42 PM »

Hi Mick,

I'm rather new to the LSR stuff so I don't know how much "advice" I can give you, but there are PLENTY of willing and able people around here to give you good advice and help you go as fast as you can.

As for gearbox, I don't know how well they work for LSR, but a Berg 5 on an aircooled VW is pretty tough to beat. For a really good resource on VW performance, you can try thesamba.com. I don't think I ever saw an LSR article or posting over there, but there are some real knowledgable VW/AC performance folks over there.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=606493

Love the oval, keep posting info about your build, I'd love to see how it turns out.

Are you looking at being have this ready for Gairdner in March?
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 08:45:44 PM »

3 inch chop and a tube chassis.... will be a lot stiffer for going fast

This is not such a strange suggestion - my original plans were to build a volks-rod - chopped and sectioned, but the oval kinda turned up and kept nagging away at me to buy it - lol. Will get this running first though - the rod may be on the table for future years (would hack up a later model bug instead though)

Wow!  Ther's a Jagular behind the VW!

lol - yeah - one of the (too) many projects I have. Should probably sell it to finance the Bug, but just can't bear to part with it.

... a Berg 5 on an aircooled VW is pretty tough to beat.

Are you looking at being have this ready for Gairdner in March?

The Berg 5 is a good proposal but they are simply too expensive for me (the box in the link is pretty much twice what I paid for the whole car!!). I've already got a 915 box (Porsche 5 speed) from the same car the engine came from, but to fit it involves cutting the pan and converting to IRS, which i want to avoid if i can. What I'm trying to figure out is if there are ratios / diffs available for the 'stock' 4 speed VW transmission as this would be my preference.

Yes - the plans are to have it ready for Speedweek 2010, lots to do, and not much time.
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2009, 09:46:58 PM »

Hey up,
good to have you here....you've said it now.....next year???.....did you see the late(r) model bug that was at the lake this year?..... I'm thinking you really need a lot longer than four months to digest all the info and possible alternative approaches you might take on that one... Stainless's suggestion

 
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3 inch chop and a tube chassis.... will be a lot stiffer for going fast
good luck with your project

would be a smart way to go about it if you aren't planning on using it for anything else....

personally I would keep that body for a street car, but that's me, I once had a hand cut lug racing frame for a bicycle that i stripped , left outside for a few months and then shot with clear.....it was gorgeous.

If I were you I'd move that Jag a little further away in case the tin worms go from making visits to the Dub to just moving in and devour the whole thing....

Looking forward to meeting you out at the Lake , if you haven't been there yet you are in for a treat, it is the most beautiful place in the world if you ask me
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 10:04:54 PM »

If it was me, and it isn't I know Cheesy, I would make it a mid engine to better distribute the weight in the chassis. The one thing I noticed playing with beetles is when they start to get out of shape, they like to swap ends with all the weight in the back. You'd still get good traction on the mid engine setup.

Just something to think about.

Good luck with the build.
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 10:36:23 PM »

I was out at the lake this year - I did manage to say hi to you guys - You were talking to my buddy Phil and his son - maybe you remember him?? he was the guy building a supercharged XM Futura?? Love the Lakester BTW - awesome bit of kit that.

I've been following the salt for past couple of years now, we originally were going to come out in 2008 but as you know - rain ruined play, so this year was the first year for us. Wanted to check it out before committing to building something, so hopefully I've got my head around what i want / need to do.

As far as keeping it for a street car -  You might be surprised to learn that Beetle's are not really my thing - I bought it purely to use as a race car. I'm a confirmed aircooled VW nut but I prefer Karmann Ghias and Splitty's (early kombi's). This is actually the first Bug I've ever owned. I might street register it but not sure yet. The only reason I would consider this is to run the engine in as it has zero miles.

The idea with the bug is that it will be used for drag racing the rest of the year (the fact that Adelaide doesn't have a strip is a minor detail - lol) and then when speedweek comes around - swap out the gearbox and see if I can better the previous years speed. Well - that's the theory - lol

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T-34
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 10:49:49 PM »

If it was me, and it isn't I know Cheesy, I would make it a mid engine to better distribute the weight in the chassis. The one thing I noticed playing with beetles is when they start to get out of shape, they like to swap ends with all the weight in the back. You'd still get good traction on the mid engine setup.

Just something to think about.

Good luck with the build.

I agree - once rear engined cars break grip, the rear end comes around pretty quickly, although I'm hoping that there's not too many corners in the track to push the limit grin

Weight distribution is a bit of a concern - VW's can get quite light when it comes to steering - especially when lowered, as the castor angle is reduced - you can reset the angle with shims, but there is still precious little weight in the front end. I'm considering relocating the battery up front and will mount the remote tank for the dry sump setup, and possibly the bottle for the fire suppression system there too. Not sure about the wisdom of mounting the battery next to the fuel tank though!

One advantage is that there is a lot of weight on the rear wheels so there is improved traction, this is one reason why Bugs do pretty well at standing quarters.

Happy to hear others thoughts on weight distribution.

Mick Percy.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 12:01:44 AM »

Hey mate, just build some weight boxes to fit up front on the floor pan & pour em fulla lead. I messed with Racing Road Maggots back in NZ in the 70's & they did just about everything better with lead up front. Weight won't hurt terminal speed, just means you'll get there facing the right direction.  If the class rules allow it, hang a whale tail on that thing, it cleans the aero up heaps on a maggot.
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 12:12:12 AM »

Hey mate, just build some weight boxes to fit up front on the floor pan & pour em fulla lead. I messed with Racing Road Maggots back in NZ in the 70's & they did just about everything better with lead up front. Weight won't hurt terminal speed, just means you'll get there facing the right direction.  If the class rules allow it, hang a whale tail on that thing, it cleans the aero up heaps on a maggot.

Had considered a weight box or some kind of bolt on weights in the spare wheel well. Was inspired by the Shaguar thread over at DLRA forums where they have adjustable sliding weights in the sills.

Dunno about a whale tail tho - they just plain fugly  grin
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 07:57:35 AM »

If it was me, and it isn't I know Cheesy, I would make it a mid engine to better distribute the weight in the chassis. The one thing I noticed playing with beetles is when they start to get out of shape, they like to swap ends with all the weight in the back. You'd still get good traction on the mid engine setup.

Just something to think about.

Good luck with the build.
And this is different how from the tendency to fix traction problems by putting lead in the trunk over the rear axle? embarassed
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 05:12:15 PM »

I was out at the lake this year - I did manage to say hi to you guys - You were talking to my buddy Phil and his son - maybe you remember him?? he was the guy building a supercharged XM Futura?? Love the Lakester BTW - awesome bit of kit that.
Yes , vaguely.....frankly I was so up tight* for the whole week that I really don't remember all that many fine details...but there's nothing like the mention of a Karman Ghia or a Futura to get my attention.

Your job now is to sort through the mountain of valuable , conflicting advice that people will offer, and make your own story out of it.

* Just yesterday I remembered how I felt when I took the first run on the test track and couldn't see subaru because of the vibration in my helmet from the cheek bars touching it. For a couple of minutes I thought all was lost, I think the shock of that went beyond the exhilaration of the first run.
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 08:04:34 PM »

I guess with all of the advice in the world, the only real way to know is to take that first run.

I'm always amazed to think that for many that run faster vehicles, such as yourself, the only time you get to have a proper shakedown at high speed is when you get out on the salt, it must be nerve-racking.
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 12:50:30 AM »

 The place we ran weight boxes back then was on the floor pan in the steering cavity, that got it low & on the chassis. Lots of room down there & easy to get to with a wheel off. The spare wheel well is in the body, not a good place for weight.
 If you want to put more pos caster in the front end, just space out the lower torsion bar tube at the chassis mount & then set the ride hight.
 Let me tell you a story about the tail. We ran a 64 small window club car 2180 bla bla bla. It would tach 5 grand down the main strait consistantly. Mid race one time it picked up 500rpm after someone had tapped me in the arse, it turned out the engine hatch was sticking straight out. We closed the door & lost the 500rpm. So from that we decided to build a tail, so we built a dead flat one out of a chunk of 3/4 form ply & did some testing. It started out at 2ft long (looked like a barbique plate) & we just cut it back a little at a time until the car started to loose rpm. Took it off & lost the 500, put it back on & got the 500 back. We built a nice looking one out of another hunk of that free red form ply & glassed over it to de-ugly the thing. It ended up being 15 or 16" deep & came around past the air vents with 2 braces down to the body beside the engine hatch. It was below the air vents. Not toooo ugly but fast-er. It got dubbed the barbique plate so we had a sausage, a sav & an egg painted on it, really.
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