Aeromotive Belt driven pump?

[robfrey]

We used one of these pumps at WF this year and what a pain it was.
The pump would not prime itself no matter how fast we cranked the engine.
We had to prime it all the time and it almost didn't start at all up at the line once.
Waited in line for 5 hours, sitting at the line and the car won't start! Nice!
Once the engine is running, it works perfectly but starting a EFI car with no fuel pressure is not fun.
Any ideas here? Maybe a check valve or a residual valve?

[BVCBR]

We plumb in a small electric pump. once started we turn off the electric.

JW

[horsewidower]

While I don't use that pump, I do use an inline check valve on my electric pump which is mounted above my fuel tank.  Primes every time.

[jl222]

  We use a cam driven pump on the 222 car, same deal wouldn't prime, used a Summit electric EFI pump and starter button to prime system untill started pg 46 in latest Summit catalog part # sum-G3138 -$79.95

                     JL222

[robfrey]

  We use a cam driven pump on the 222 car, same deal wouldn't prime, used a Summit electric EFI pump and starter button to prime system untill started pg 46 in latest Summit catalog part # sum-G3138 -$79.95

                     JL222

How do you administer it to the engine? Just a tube to the intake? Some sort of spray nozzle? Do you have a check valve on the line fo after start?

[Dynoroom]

I've used a belt driven pump for EFI since1997. Just use a check valve to "T" in for the electric pump. No big deal.

[jl222]

  We use a cam driven pump on the 222 car, same deal wouldn't prime, used a Summit electric EFI pump and starter button to prime system untill started pg 46 in latest Summit catalog part # sum-G3138 -$79.95

                     JL222

How do you administer it to the engine? Just a tube to the intake? Some sort of spray nozzle? Do you have a check valve on the line fo after start?

   We just T into the end of the fuel rail on the return line and ahead of the regulator no check valve as the pressure doesn't flow backward through [THIS] electric pump. This fills the system and brings the pressure up. Works great. You can tell when it gets pressure because you can hear the pump start to labor and slow down. With the hood off we can see the guage come up to the 40lbs that we run.



                             JL222

[SPARKY]

on the lakester we installed our tank above our pump---on the the Mod Pu will prob. use the check valve T like Mike refered to.

On the Lakester we installed the big micrion inline filter inside the tank and the small micro filter is between the mech pump and the injectors.

[robfrey]

If $79 and some hose and fittings fixes this I will be a happy camper. Are you sure iI  don't need that check valve Like Mr Lefever is running?
I almost blew a gasket (in my brain) when that thing wouldn't start LOL.
Mike, one advantage you have is that your pump is so much lower than ours. If ours was that low, we might not even need that electric pump. What brand is that pump? Looks nice. I know from experience that we can't use one of those pumps without changing oil pumps or doing some engineering and custom machining.

[Dynoroom]

It's a hilborn pump but it doesn't really matter who's it is (Enderle, Jackson, Waterman, etc.) But I use a check valve because I don't want to see if my electric pump flow fuel backwards.

As a side note if you talk to your oil pump manufacturer you might just find out he can upgrade you pump for the bolt on fuel pump.

[jl222]

If $79 and some hose and fittings fixes this I will be a happy camper. Are you sure iI  don't need that check valve Like Mr Lefever is running?
I almost blew a gasket (in my brain) when that thing wouldn't start LOL.
Mike, one advantage you have is that your pump is so much lower than ours. If ours was that low, we might not even need that electric pump. What brand is that pump? Looks nice. I know from experience that we can't use one of those pumps without changing oil pumps or doing some engineering and custom machining.

   It wouldn't hurt to put one in.

[BackwoodsBoy]

Robfrey,

I just setup a FAST EFI system with this pump on a alky BBC.   I have to prime the motor just like a the mechanical injection systems the first time I fire the motor for the day then after that it fires right up.  The trick I found was setting the starting enrichments in the FAST system to FULL RICH/MAXIMUM on time.  And I also set the change over from starting to runing to as long time as I could. Once I got these settings set the car has set up to 8 hours and still starts up.

The key here is that when the motor starts to turn over the pump start you get some pressure but the pump does not get to full pressure until about 600-800 Engine RPM.  So you have pressure but just not enough at cranking RPM.  So by turning the injectors on 90+% duty cycle you get the fuel that you need.  It not that the pump is having trouble priming it just has LOOWW pressure.

I am not even sure that I need to prime at all I just do it to make sure not to shorten the life of the starter.

PS  When I started this I thought I was going to have to rig up a primming pump.  Just had to sit down and think about what was happening!!!

BackwoodsBoy

[robfrey]

Backwoodsboy,

I can crank and crank and crank and I still have zero pressure showing on the gauge.
I guess I could try maxing the injectors on cranking in the FAST. Easy enough.

[BackwoodsBoy]

You have some pressure it just needs more injector open time.  I set the "Cranking Fuel vs Temp" to a flat line at the top of the graph.  I

Then in the "Setup Parameters" I set "Crank To Run Mode RPM" to 800 witch is MAX VALUE and I set the "Engine Revs to Run Mode" to 100 witch also MAX VALUE. 

These were the keys to getting this system to work.

I also made the the curves on the "Afterstart vs. CTS" and "After Start Revs vs. CTS" richer but not sure if this had much effect.

[jl222]

You have some pressure it just needs more injector open time.  I set the "Cranking Fuel vs Temp" to a flat line at the top of the graph.  I

Then in the "Setup Parameters" I set "Crank To Run Mode RPM" to 800 witch is MAX VALUE and I set the "Engine Revs to Run Mode" to 100 witch also MAX VALUE. 

These were the keys to getting this system to work.

I also made the the curves on the "Afterstart vs. CTS" and "After Start Revs vs. CTS" richer but not sure if this had much effect.

   Is the pump above or below the fuel level? Our pump is cam drive and above fuel level no fuel comes out when line is disconnected and engine turned over.

                      JL222