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Author Topic: Rebuild for '10  (Read 5967 times)
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roadster589
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 08:08:11 AM »

Lee Kenndy ( dry lakes racing hall if fame inductie 2009 )

That's all I have to say bout that.
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 09:01:30 AM »

Not positive since I have not inspeced in the last few years but there were quite a few Monzas with 4 lugs on the front running and they were definately 200 MPH cars. I always questioned this practice to chief inspectors but 5 was not stated in the rule book for fronts and they were never over 29" so I don't remember anything being done. They all did have 1" lug nuts. I would think 5 would be the mimimum especially over 200...
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First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro
Jonny Hotnuts
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2009, 11:06:30 AM »

I didnt want this to start being a session of me complaining, its true I overlooked the lug nuts...no doubt and its my fault. I feel lucky to have been able to run and again Lees requirements were based on a compromise between Lee and myself, his original option was to get the 5 bolt hubs and install them on the salt. Problem was that even if I found the hubs common wheels wouldnt fit due to the backset (I have custom wheels made due to the difference in track width between the RX7 rear end and the Fiat). It was really my pleading that I could add lugs that he allowed an engineer to OK them after doing the mods.

And I seen other cars over 200 that didnt have 1" lugs (the beautiful blue Rx7 from the Japanese team) for instance that had 5 lug wheels on gold alloy wheels. These were not 1" lugs.....but....whatever.....not for me to question why.

Again, Lee is tops in my book, I started this thread to show the changes to the car for next year and the hub story was just part of the journey.

~JH


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"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
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jimmy six
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2009, 02:00:13 PM »

Jonny, I don't feel your complaining about anything. Over the years just by practice things have been over looked. For all I know all the Monza/Vega types have 5 lugs now but I doubt it. I agree with you knowing about another car which doesn't meet requirements; you hate to point out something that passes by other inspectors and dinged by yours. I too have the highest respect for Lee and others which have had that position. I've worked with him, beside him, and for him when he was the lead inspector I went to him often on structure advice. I'm an electrician with good mechanical skill but I don't know everything there is to know and never will.

The check off sheet is very important to me when looking at a vehicle and when I see something questionalble I ask the competitor and the lead inspector to look at it. I expect them to be consistant but as we change from one lead to another I know that may not be possible. We all must work together to keep us all safe.

Personally I kringed at the the use of 13" tires for land speed use; but I'm not on them and they've been allowed. Good luck...........JD
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Rick Byrnes
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 08:33:19 PM »

JH

I have some knowledge of Goodyear 500 X 5 tires and offer this:

They were engineered by Les Garbicz at Goodyear, specifically for Don Garlits as stated.  Les is now retired.
My engineering source at GY will NOT recommend those tires for anything over 200 MPH.
Almost everyone who has run them has had failures.  Mostly chunking and/or tread separation.

I got caught up with them when I was doing my chassis with Mel Swain.  Our thought was to use two in tandem on each side, therby getting the benefit of small frontal area, less turbulence, etc etc. AND not have issues with SCTA tech relative to failures since the load would be significantly less.  This was in 2000, after I had retired the Merkur.
I had several sets of the tires, but decided after first running them on the salt in 2004 with the unsuspended front that a change was necessary, especially if I wanted to go really fast.  300+ Now being the target.
I have gone thru several iterations of front end design, and finally arrived at a very conventional single axle with 21 inch tires.
It just doesn't make sense to make compromises when I am in this for the long run.  I considered solid or hollow aluminum, and Kevlar belt tires, but still keep going back to the size I am at now.
I had inhereted the Kevlar tires that Joe Law had originated.  We figured out how to make them a tad better, but then the manufacturing source went away.  (unfortunate because they were truly revolutionary and only 14 inches in dia)
Again I am led back to convention.
For me the only good for the Garlits tire is on my war wagon........

Now, about my friend LEE,  well, its been said.
I have bumped heads with Lee and Miler Mike, but in every case they were perfect with the rule book and the protection of we, the drivers. 

Your car has the capability of going much faster than just 200 MPH, and some really crazy things happen in the area of 200 to 225 MPH.

I'm sorry to preach and lecture, but this is an area I feel really strongly about.  We cannot compromise our safety with innovation or what we may call out of the box thinking.
The gene pool suggests I can live to a pretty old age, and I intend on taking every advantage of that while still pursuing my passion of Land Speed Racing.

OK
back to lurk mode



 


* IMG_0725.JPG (134.32 KB, 640x480 - viewed 250 times.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:35:59 PM by Rick Byrnes » Logged

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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 09:02:58 PM »


And I seen other cars over 200 that didnt have 1" lugs (the beautiful blue Rx7 from the Japanese team) for instance that had 5 lug wheels on gold alloy wheels. These were not 1" lugs.....but....whatever.....not for me to question why.

~JH

JNuts, alloy wheels usually don't use tapered seat lug nuts, they should have a quarter inch thick steel ring under lugnuts of whatever size fits them.  Proper thread engagement is also required.  The inspectors have your best interest at heart.... they will usually help you find a way to race if possible.   If your tire had a problem, you now understand part of their concern. 
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2009, 10:21:26 AM »

Stainless and JH. I have one set of 18" wheels forged aluminum that use the tapered lugs. They are 32" diameter and I decided to put an extra 1/4" thick plate on top of the existing lug nuts. I then use the 1" lug nut on backwards (flat side down). I did all this after installing long studs on all 4 wheels. I also made a set for the front with holes for the hub. The fronts on mine were 24" diameter.

There is always a way and there should be no excuses for not having proper rule meeting wheel attachments. Everyone always seem to want to take the easy way out or buy something at Pep Boys. These are all hybrid race cars and should be treated as such. . . . . .JD
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First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro
Stainless1
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 03:16:31 PM »

JD, ours required lugnuts with a shoulder and we made a quarter inch plate.


* lugnuts.jpg (29.39 KB, 300x145 - viewed 198 times.)

* wheel_ring.png (65.61 KB, 200x150 - viewed 559 times.)
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 04:08:43 PM »

Stain---- The most important thing with that style of lug nut is the threads need to come to the end of the lug. 

Because I could not get the style of lug you have in the picture with 1" head I added the plate to the outside on my 28" wheel/tire combination to the ouside of the ones you show when I used them to go over 200. Needing to meet the rules takes a lot of ingenuity for our specialty race vehicles at times.

One of the nice things about inspecting vehicle for many years is seeing what others have done. "Stealing" ideas and also sharing them with others during inspections and on sites like this makes for a good days. The easiest one was the velcroed Duez tool to my switch panel. When competitors have the "Fjastad" fasteners I always remined them to have one on board and at least on in the push truck.....Good luck.
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 09:28:09 PM »

nutz
I too have butted heads with Lee and Miler Mike... i have gained an absolute upmost respect for the both of them... and you will eventually also..... i would never put them in a posisition that would question their decisions and neithor should you.... they absolutely have your back without going into detail about their  calls.... they may or may not like you but for shure they do not want to be a pallbearer at your funeral...... FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS!

so..... others including myself advised you not to run those tires due to failures but you did anyhow and you had failures.... so ya shaved em and put a bandaid on the problem.... ya got luckey buddy
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2009, 08:31:59 AM »

My car Ratical has had issues with inspectors over 3 seasons---Lee has been there several times---I have never had issues with Lee K.---because not one time has he ever taken issue with the Ratical that there wasn't something on the car that he could point to or something that had happened on the race course---guess what ---now that I reworked the Ratical for the third time and changed enough "STUFF" that it gets down the course straight & gets its chute out in a timely manner--

 my heart went to my throat when the BIG white Ford CC came rolling up after a 280 lisc. pass for Joey at SW  Lee got out and started looking at the Chute---I rolled up and went over and asked if anything was wrong---{this was right after the MM had droped a chute on the course at 340}---he said no---he just like to stay up on the chute condition of the faster cars.

As FOX likes to say---FAIR & BALANCED--- in my opinion, that describes----Lee Kennedy
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2009, 11:18:25 PM »

JD, ours required lugnuts with a shoulder and we made a quarter inch plate.

 Hey Stainless,

 When i ran similar wheels, i cut the hex off those lugs on the lathe, flipped them around and threaded them on to the studs. This located the aluminum wheel, i was then able to use 1" lug nuts and 1/4" Washers.
  Car passed tech and seem very stable.. Just thought i'd chime in...

 Brett
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