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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 520137 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #450 on: June 05, 2011, 01:00:57 PM »

Now I am on the internet looking for a retaining clip with an increased 2nd moment of inertia.  This is often called the area moment of inertia.  All us backwoods guys do this.

There are two types of heavy duty retaining clips in my style.  One type conforms to Deutsche Industries Norm (DIN) standards.  Dimension T is much greater but dimensions S are not much different.  See attached chart for descriptions of T and S.  The formula shows that a thicker T helps and greater dimensions S help a lot more.

The other type meets American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards.  It has a thicker T and also greater minimum and maximum S dimensions.  This is what I will use and I order a couple in the strong carbon steel.  Always, I use OEM or reputable manufacturer retaining rings.  A ring of unknown pedigree is like a blind date.  You might get lucky.  Chances are you won't.

The clips arrive and the T dimensions are too big to fit in the groove.  This is anticipated.  I rub one of the rings across some sandpaper to take off a few hundredths of a mm so it will fit.  This little rascal is quite a bit stronger than the original as shown by the math on the attached.

There you have it, my circlip trick, Part 1.  There are many uses for it.  Gear clusters and shift linkages are some.


* Ring Inertia.jpg (287.61 KB, 1006x768 - viewed 182 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #451 on: June 07, 2011, 12:19:40 AM »

Part 1 was to install a stronger retaining ring.  That cures the symptom and not the problem.  More than 40 years ago I read some books about a fellow that left his body and witnessed life from the perspective of a fly on the wall.  He made some observations and went back into his body.  Powerful drugs aided this transformation.  Carlos Casteneda was the author, I think.  My memory is bad for some reason.  Anyway, I make myself small and look at life from the retaining clip's view.  I use my imagination and a bottle of Russian beer.

Fatigue is the problem here.  It can be reduced by lessening the load, reducing the number of load cycles, or keeping the retaining ring in constant tension.  In other words, a ring that is a loose fit is subject to tension and relaxation during a load cycle.  This contributes to fatigue.  A ring that tightly grips the shaft throughout the load cycle does not relax and it is less susceptible to fatigue.

An aluminum part slides along the shaft when the kick start is used.  It is a loose sliding fit on the shaft and it is worn where it contacts the circlip.  The hollowed aluminum part face tries to bend the circlip out of the groove.  This explains the rounded back edge of the groove.  I hunt around in a can of washers and find a high quality steel one that is a tight sliding fit on the shaft.  Then, I cut it to the same outside diameter as the aluminum part and I put some grooves in it to match the part.  Finally, I remove metal from the aluminum piece so the length of the washer and the aluminum part is the same as the original piece.

One thing to remember.  The face of the retaining ring with sharp edges should be forced by the load against the groove face.  The same with the washer.  The face with the sharp edges should be forced by the load against the retaining ring.  I put aluminum part on the shaft with the new washer on top of it.  The washer is positioned so the sharp edged face is pushing on the retaining ring.  Now a nice and flat piece of steel pushes evenly on the beefy retaining ring.  The forces trying to bend the ring out of the groove are greatly reduced.  There is less chance of fatigue.  This fixes the problem so it will not happen again.


* Aluminum Thing.JPG (174.42 KB, 800x533 - viewed 304 times.)

* Steel Washer.JPG (199.19 KB, 800x600 - viewed 161 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #452 on: June 26, 2011, 12:59:29 AM »

This little red and white bike has been keeping me busy with new paint and a rebuild from end to end and top to bottom.  It is done.  Now I can start back to work on the salt bike.

In SoCal I rode 500's in the desert and I took one big Yamaha with me when I moved to Oregon.  The club in Oregon I belonged to built and maintained trails in the woods.  Lots of times I had to lift the bike over logs, pull it out of bogs, push it up muddy hills, etc.  The 500 weighed too much.  I sold it and bought this little bike new in 1986.  Lots of riding and one big race every year was the routine with a mix of enduros, ISDE qualifiers, and desert races.  I won several bronze and silver medals, but no gold ones.

Several years ago I entered the China Hat 100 desert race.  There is a cinder cone on the course that looks like a Chinese coolie hat, hence the name.  Desert racing is not for a person with sense or the ability to think or reason.  Often times the ground is frozen and slick or icy.  There are barbed wire fences all around and abandoned mine shafts.  There is a lot of riding flat out in top gear in the dust.  Sometimes a fellow cannot see where he is going.  I was zipping along and an aggressive pine tree jumped right out in front of me.  I tossed the bike to the left and it went around one side of the tree.  I went around the other.  Totally smooth and painless - until I hit the ground.  Then it really hurt.  I found my glasses and the bike, restarted, and finished the race.  Neither the bike or myself have been completely the same after that.  I was 50 years old at the time and I decided to find a safer hobby, like LSR.  The bike sat and I rode it two or three times.  It ran bad, had a serious oil leak, and handled like the frame was broken.  I could not sell it for some reason.  Now my youngest girl wants to ride.  Tomorrow will be the first time we both ride together. 


* Mutt and Jeff.JPG (446.34 KB, 800x533 - viewed 197 times.)
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octane
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« Reply #453 on: June 26, 2011, 07:39:54 AM »

I read some books about a fellow that left his body and witnessed life from the perspective of a fly on the wall.  He made some observations and went back into his body.  Powerful drugs aided this transformation.  Carlos Casteneda was the author, I think.  My memory is bad for some reason.  Anyway, I make myself small and look at life from the retaining clip's view. ...

The above just reminded why I love reading your posts



...and again:

I was zipping along and an aggressive pine tree jumped right out in front of me.  I tossed the bike to the left and it went around one side of the tree.  I went around the other.  Totally smooth and painless - until I hit the ground. 
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« Reply #454 on: June 27, 2011, 12:19:56 AM »

Thanks for the compliments, Lars.  This forum is a comfortable place for me.  Often I write the goofy thoughts I think without worrying about it.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #455 on: June 27, 2011, 08:33:32 AM »

WW, you've got it -- the essence of writing for others.  They'll get bits and chunks of good information as well as discovering that it's fun to read and learn said stuff.  Well done -- on the writing, too, as well as on the red and white bike for your daughter.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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 (that's way up north)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #456 on: June 28, 2011, 12:52:29 AM »

Actually, Slim, the red and white old bike is mine.  The new one is hers.  We rode about 15 miles with short trails and longer road sections.  Speeds up to 30 mph on the roads.  We got back to the truck and were packing.  She said "I tried to keep up with you and my bike was going as fast as it would go."  It took about ten minutes for this to sink in.  I asked "What gear were you in, second, third?"  She said, "First gear papa.  I am afraid I will crash if I shift into second.  The bike just will not go as fast as you."  Some inner voice tells me the new engine is broken in.  She changed the oil this evening.

The forks are ready to be put together.  One picture shows the damper rods.  The inner springs are from IKON and they are custom made to fit in the narrower inside diameters of the stronger tubes.  The damper rods are unmodified OEM.  There are black plastic rings on the damper tube ends.  They are OEM with the end gaps enlarged so they will fit inside the new tubes.

The other picture shows the stronger tubes from Forking by Frank.  The dust seals, oil seals, circlips, and upper bushings are all new OEM.  The lower bushings are fabricated from some Race Tech parts.  The silver washers are OEM.

The inner tubes insides are coated with brown funk as seen on the paper towel.  This is cleaned out before assembly.


* Damper Rods with Springs.JPG (135.66 KB, 640x427 - viewed 170 times.)

* Tubes with Seals.JPG (137.86 KB, 640x427 - viewed 172 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #457 on: June 30, 2011, 12:35:44 AM »

These goodies fit inside the inner fork tubes.  The front end dives during shutdown and this causes stability problems.  The old springs were progressive wound and the softer upper spring coils were compressing and allowing the front to drop.  These custom wound springs by IKON are stiffer springs and straight wound.  There are no softer coils.

The old T-100 fork caps had no spring preload adjustment.  These caps from a Thruxton have about 20 mm of preload adjustment and they are interchangeable.  Plans are to run minimal preload on the street and greater preload on the salt.  The preload adjustment screws stick into the tops of the springs and do not work correctly unless disks are installed between them.  The disks here are valve adjustment shims from a Honda.

The motorcycle chassis with rider has lots of mass and it moves slowly in response to external forces.  The bike wheels are small and light and they move quickly.  The mushroom looking things are Ricor Intimidator fork valves and they take advantage of the different movement rates.  Slow chassis movements are damped and quick wheel movements are not.  This allows the suspension to absorb road shocks, and at the same time, keep the bike from wallowing around.  They were custom made for this application.  This is intended to help reduce front end dive.  The tool and shims between the spring are for adjusting the Intimidators.   


* Springs n Caps.JPG (189.02 KB, 800x533 - viewed 152 times.)

* Springs n Shrooms.JPG (185.72 KB, 800x533 - viewed 168 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #458 on: July 04, 2011, 12:28:57 AM »

A lot of testing has been done these last few days to tune in the fork oil weight, oil height, spring rate, and spring preload.

First, the oil.  The standard Triumph fork oil is 10 weight and the compressed fork tubes are filled up to 120 mm of the tube tops.  The Intimidators will not work with 10 weight and a lighter oil is needed.  Ricor used Amsoil 5 weight "Shock Therapy" when they calibrated the Intimidators.  They recommend this oil, preferably, or another brand of 5 weight.  Money is tight around here and I had a full can of Yamaha S1 suspension fluid on the shelf.  It is either 0 or 5 weight oil for cartridge suspensions.  In it went.  The tubes were filled within 140 mm of the tops.  This was a height recommendation given to me by Progressive Suspension years ago.  The Intimidators work great with the Yamaha oil and this oil level.

Second, the racing springs.  The custom IKON spring is 0.9 kg/mm rate and it is 20.5 inches long.  This is about 51 pounds per inch, roughly.  I tried them with the Thruxton adjustable caps set at minimum preload.  The fork topped out when crossing over bumps.  I used the standard Triumph T-100 fork caps next.  This reduces the spring preload 0.578 inches and the topping occurred much less often.  The suspension is stiff but tolerable.  Just like an old time cafe racer.  These springs will work well with the fairing at Bonneville.  I will use them there.

Third, the street springs.  Advice I had about the Intimidators was to try them with softer springs than I would normally use.  A set of progressive Suspension #11-1126 springs fit in the tubes.  These are 35 pound / 50 pound progressive springs.  They were a bit soft for me based on past experience.  I install these progressive springs the opposite of most people.  The open coil is toward the wheel.  This is what goes on top of each spring after some experimenting:  a plain washer, a 1.577 inch long spacer, another plain washer, the Honda valve shim, and the Thruxton adjustable cap. 

Fourth, suspension settings.  The back end has a set of IKON shocks with progressive springs and adjustable damping and preload.  Salt flat settings are maximum damping and minimum preload on the shocks.  The front is not adjustable.  Street settings are to set the fork spring preload to match the shock spring preload.  Full preload on the shocks means the preload adjusters on the forks are screwed in all the way, as an example.  I also try to set the shock damping to match the fork damping.

Does it work?  Most of the freeways around here are concrete and the on and off ramps are asphalt.  The seams between the two can get ratty and a person has to cross the seams at an angle to get on and off of the freeway.  This could be a scary moment with the old forks.  Sometimes they flexed and the front wheel did not go exactly where it was supposed to.  No problem now.  The new forks are noticeably stronger.  This will be a very big help on the salt.  There are rough places on the streets around here that I steer around.  Now I do not need to.  The Ricor valves allow the forks to respond to these bumps and the ride is much smoother.  The bike holds a line much better when cornering on rough pavement.  These modifications are worth the cost and trouble.   
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #459 on: July 04, 2011, 06:01:49 AM »

You should title this "Fork Rebuild 101" and submit it to the Rico people.  Great explanation.  I have some Gold Valve Emulators in my CB350 race bike that I've never set up properly.  Now I'm inspired -- if only I had more time.
Tom
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« Reply #460 on: July 04, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

Wob,
I really enjoy your posts about selecting modification options.
About your fork oil, here is an interesting article about damping with a really helpful table at the bottom.
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
It seems not all fork oils are created equal, or even comparable by viscosity weight rating.
Hope to see you and your team at Bub!
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #461 on: July 06, 2011, 01:12:43 AM »

Tom, these Ricor valves are adjusted by adding or subtracting shims with different thicknesses and changing the fork oil weight works, too.  I am not sure how the gold valves work, but sometimes changing to a different weight oil will make a difference.

DadSolds, thanks for the article.  I buy stuff on clearance and sale and these handy charts will help me select oils similar to what the is in the fork now.

The article attached to DadSolds post has a link to a discussion about springs.  The author does not prefer progressive rate springs for many reasons.  My experience is similar and this is something I did not mention in the suspension post.  The bike uses progressive springs front and rear for the street setup.  These springs work well with varying loads, such as me alone or with my wife, camping gear, crab pot, crab pot and camping gear, etc.  Properly tuned straight rate springs always have given me the best results for race or dirt bikes when the load is the rider and it does not change.  The bike would be setup with straight rate boingers if racing was all that I do.

Dyno work is scheduled for the morning of the 14th.  This should be an interesting year.
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« Reply #462 on: July 09, 2011, 05:51:04 PM »

Great Stuff Wobbly...............See ya at BUB........
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« Reply #463 on: July 15, 2011, 12:39:58 AM »

Months ago I reserved a few hours at the dyno.  The carburetion was a little lean last year and I want to make sure it is correctly adjusted.  Also, I need to know the horsepower for setup purposes such as picking the right sprockets.  Another goal is to do "A-B-A" testing to figure out the best header pipes for an exhaust system I will build this winter.  The procedure is to test system A, then setup B, then A again.  System A is the larger diameter headers with no cross-over pipe on the Arrow system and B is the Triumph smaller diameter headers with a cross-over.  The Arrow mufflers would be used on both for the comparison

The bike was hard to start.  The battery seemed to be low.  It started and off I went to Portland.  Halfway there I took a break and the bike was even harder to start.  Odd.  Finally I got to the shop and prepared the bike for the dyno.  It would not start.  The charging system was not working and the regulator/rectifier was the culprit.  It is the finned thing under the headlight and when it failed some wires in the harness overheated and their insulation burnt.  The harness costs three times as much as the regulator and it is on backorder from England.  The mechanic says this failure is very uncommon on Bonnevilles, and when it happens, there is often expensive damage to other parts.  Lesson 1, pay attention to this part.

Every year I do a charging test during the annual service.  I mentioned that during last years test the charging voltage dropped when the rpm increased.  This did not bother me because the drop was not enough to result in a discharge.  The mechanic said the voltage should not drop.  He said it is typical for these components to gradually fail and periodic charging tests can spot trouble before it becomes expensive.  Lesson 2, plot graphs of voltage and amperage at various rpm when the system is working OK.  Check, with a comparison against the graphs to make sure the thing is working annually and before long trips.

These components convert excess alternator output into heat.  Normal operating conditions are a bike at moderate rpm with the lights on.  There is not a lot of excess current and heat in this application.  In this example there is a nut riding the bike for miles at a time at extremely high rpm with no lights.  There is a lot of extra current and resultant heat.  Lesson 3, land speed racing puts a lot of stress on this part   Keep an extra one at hand.  This winter I will carefully repair the old harness and keep it, too.

More schooling from the college of experience, this is.   


* To the Dyno.JPG (197.79 KB, 564x480 - viewed 160 times.)

* Bad News.JPG (133.98 KB, 640x427 - viewed 157 times.)
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gearheadeh
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« Reply #464 on: July 15, 2011, 08:47:14 AM »

Wobbly, I really appreciate it when you have the guts and honesty to make posts like these. smiley
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