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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 519215 times)
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Queeziryder
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« Reply #270 on: October 16, 2010, 01:07:05 PM »

Hi WW,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you sad
Firstly I can't find any decent pic's of the swing arm conversion on my friends bike, but I will try to do you a sketch, and if you PM me, I'll send it by email...
Secondly if you can get it in the US, you can possibly add Tetra Ethyl Lead (TEL) to your unleaded to bring it back to a high octane leaded fuel, this is what we do occaisonally to one of my dads bike which is a hot Norton single running 12:1 on the road.

HTH
Neil
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charlie101
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« Reply #271 on: October 16, 2010, 09:36:28 PM »

Well, I have antisocial behaviour issues in spades and am a little bit challenged on the IQ scale huh, so I haven't got that much to spare for handling the highly toxic TEL concentrates myself as it seems a source for diminishing IQ. (read the TOXIC chapter here) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead
And I don't even care about children! On the other hand, I wouldn't know where to aquire a jar of that as it isn't for sale or the amount that is needed for bumping a specific octane a certain level, blast, I'm not certain if TEL is the only additive that is needed for that task.
The additives that is commonly available, in my neighburhoods anyway, and that I put in my gas is either sodium or natrium salts. And from what I belive, those doesn't do squat for bumping any octanes but down perhaps. Well, maybe the salts absorb some heat (slowly). Anyhow, I need my additive to prevent micro welding of valve and valve seats and ping I have to manage with comb.area shape and timing cam and spark. Turbo or blower engines regulary run high effective compression on lead free.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 09:55:16 PM by charlie101 » Logged
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #272 on: October 16, 2010, 11:58:56 PM »

My problem is the exact opposite.  I do not need more octane.  The gasoline ethanol blends we have here are sometimes hard to ignite in cold weather unless the mixture ratio is just right.  The Keihin flatslides do not have an enricher circuit.  I flood the carbs with a twist of the throttle, using the accelerator pump, then I start the engine.  Nine out of ten time this works.  The time when it does not is a pain.  I am trying to find an additive that will increase the light ends in the gasahol and make it easier to ignite in cold weather.
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charlie101
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« Reply #273 on: October 17, 2010, 12:58:24 AM »

From what I read, the companys use aceton to get the alcohol more volatile, maybe they need to accumulate some more profit before they can put enough of that in, or the gas is from last years winter season and have evaporated the good kick starting stuff? There's always a good whiff of ether, that can get almost any cranky jalopy as yours going. grin
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #274 on: October 17, 2010, 11:01:22 PM »

Thanks, Charlie.  I have a gallon of acetone laying around after a recent painting project.  Now I have a use for it.  A couple of ounces of acetone per tankful is not much of a quantity and the gallon should last me all winter.

There are some stations here that pump premium grade unleaded non-ethanol gas into street vehicles.  I just learned about this.  Now I need to find one of these stations for my winter fuel.  The premium gas costs a bit more but I also get better mileage.  The added cost is not that great because of this.

It looks like I have a couple of solutions to my problem.  Life is good.
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grumm441
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« Reply #275 on: October 18, 2010, 02:38:36 AM »

Secondly if you can get it in the US, you can possibly add Tetra Ethyl Lead (TEL) to your unleaded to bring it back to a high octane leaded fuel, this is what we do occaisonally to one of my dads bike which is a hot Norton single running 12:1 on the road.
HTH
Neil

I've got a tin, yes tin, of TEL here somewhere. It's as heavy as ....
I'm not sure how I would go trying to post it
G
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #276 on: October 18, 2010, 11:25:18 PM »

Thanks for the offer, Grumm.  Things around this household are goofy enough now.  Mild lead fume induced brain damage is the last thing we need.

     
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #277 on: October 26, 2010, 12:22:15 AM »

The climate data from www.airdensityonline.com is intriguing.  I am using it to calculate at Bonneville vs standard condition SAE dyno horsepower with free on-line calculators.  I am a lazy and cheap bastid.  Typical input is ambient or absolute pressure, temperature, relative humidity, and altitude.  I always enter the ambient (uncorrected) pressure in the calculators that ask for altitude.  I enter the absolute (corrected) values in the calculators that do not ask for altitude.

Unfortunately, the answers these calculators give are conflicting and sometimes goofy.  Does anyone have an on-line calculator they trust?  Better yet, does anyone have the crazy old style paper charts.  Can I get copies? 
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Interested Observer
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« Reply #278 on: October 26, 2010, 09:00:38 PM »

Wobbly,
The “crazy old-style paper chart” is more often called a “psychrometric chart” and you will find a plethora of information on the web if you Google it.  An actual paper one is often featured in the back of thermodynamics text books, so you may want to drop by a local college used book store and take a look.  Finding one will, however, be easier than using it!
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #279 on: October 27, 2010, 12:31:19 AM »

Thanks, I will find one.  I hope I can remember how to use it.  My goal is to do some quick checks to verify the on-line calculator I use is reasonable.

Years ago the AMA put minimum weight limits on motocross bikes.  One day I was at a race and there were factory Yamaha racers there.  I asked a fellow "Why are you continuing to use all of these expensive special parts to make the bikes lighter?  They are already well below the minimum weight limit."  His reply "We add ballast to bring the weight up to the minimum.  We locate the ballast where the weight is least detrimental to handling."  Careful observation showed me the ideal place to locate the ballast was near the motocross bike center of mass.  The pros, especially the BSA team, tried to locate all heavy things as close to the center of the bike as possible, too.  Years later the Japanese would act like they invented this concept.  They called it mass centralization.

The Triumph was a handful to ride on soft and rutted salt.  The front wheel hunted from rut to rut and the bike wobbled a lot.  Mass centralization and general lightening is an ongoing process and it is making a big difference for the better.  The wobbles of old are wiggles now.  Weight can be a good thing for a LSR bike, and I will add ballast as needed where it will help traction and not hurt handling.

The lower part of the fairing was redone last year and now it is time for the upper half.  The bike had a frame for a headlight.  I do not use the fairing on the street anymore and the frame is removed.  In the past I used 0.025 sheet aluminum for the pieces where stiffness was needed and 0.020 sheet for the thinner parts.  This was a good idea for the knockabout life of a street bike fairing.  Now I use 0.020 for the stiffer pieces and 0.015 for the majority.  All of these changes remove weight that was high and up front.  This greatly helps the handling.

The thinner 0.015 thick aluminum is hard to find in sheets.  I use roll flashing from a roofer supply.  The temper is a bit soft.  It hardens up when it is hammered.  Sometimes I need to make a part with a lot of curvature.  In this case I cut metal from the roll, hammer it, anneal it with a torch, hammer it some more, and the process is repeated as needed.  The torch annealing must be done with care.  It is easy to melt the thin sheet.       


* 015 sheet.JPG (149.96 KB, 800x533 - viewed 173 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #280 on: October 27, 2010, 11:07:03 PM »

These are the specifics about the problems I am having with on-line density calcs.  I logged onto www.airdensityonline.com  Bonneville data is:

temp = 37.0 degrees fahrenheit
corrected baro = 30.38 in Hg
52% relative humidity
uncorrected baro = 26.06 in Hg
elev = 4212.6 feet

A "tit stiffener" is what we call this weather.

Input into the on-line calculator at http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_abs.htm or http://www.anycalculator.com/enginehorsepower.htm (they are the same)

air temp = 37.0 degrees Fahrenheit
absolute pressure = 30.38 in Hg (corrected baro used)
relative humidity = 52 percent

Output is:

SAE relative horsepower = 109.1 percent
dyno correction factor is 0.917
air density = 1.297 kilos per cubic meter
density altitude = -1965 feet
ICAO relative density = 105.9 percent
virtual temperature = 37.7 degrees fahrenheit
vapor pressure = 0.115 in Hg

Input into the on-line calculator at www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html is:

current air temp = 37.0 degrees Fahrenheit
ambient barometric pressure = 26.06 in Hg (uncorrected pressure used)
ambient relative humidity = 52 percent
physical or pressure altitude = 4212.6 feet

Output is:

calculated relative horsepower to rated = 75.8 percent
calculated dynomometer correction factor = 1.320
calculated air pressure = 22.24 in Hg
calculated vapor pressure = 0.114 in Hg

Big differences in answers.  Any ideas?



   
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Interested Observer
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« Reply #281 on: October 28, 2010, 08:08:37 AM »

The csgnetwork write-up calls for using corrected pressure.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #282 on: October 28, 2010, 10:15:33 PM »

Tonight, the pressure readings are reversed.  The uncorrected 26.06 in Hg is used as the "Absolute Pressure" in the www.anycalculator... calculator.  The corrected 30.38 in Hg is used as the "Ambient Barometric Pressure" in the www.csgnetwork... calculator.  Both calculators give me the same result, a 1.100 dyno correction factor

The word "Ambient" on the www.csgnetwork... calculator input button is misleading.  It should be "Corrected to sea level."

This will be my rule of thumb.  "The calculator needs altitude, temperature, and relative humidity if it is asking for corrected to sea level atmospheric pressure.  The calculator needs temperature and relative humidity, only, if it asks for station or absolute pressure."

Thanks, Interested Bystander, for the advice.



   
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #283 on: October 31, 2010, 11:18:58 PM »

The engine and carb combination I ran this year was new and unknown.  It went on the dyno just after I got back and the results are posted earlier.  I do not know the engine rpm through the runs.  I got a peek at it during the first run and it was somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 rpm.  I also remember how the bike felt.  There was all sorts of wiggling and wheelspin during the first run.  The wheelspin was managed.  I would back off of the throttle, the bike would hook up, and I would open it up again.  The bike was steady with no excess spin during the second run.

The speeds and other data are entered into the rpm vs speed chart.  Slip factors are assumed based on what I felt and it makes sense based on my peek at the tach.  These calculated rpm will be used with the dyno chart to figure out what happened during each run.

A comment about this procedure.  These slip factors are based on the few times during the years when I read the tach through runs.  I was able to backcalculate some slip factors using the speed and rpm data.  I remember what I felt at those times.  The slip factors vs feels on the bottom of the chart were figured out.  This is a Mickey Mouse method.  It is much better to use a data logger to record the actual rpm.   

 

 


* Rpm vs Speed.jpg (220.9 KB, 600x791 - viewed 191 times.)
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Stan Back
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« Reply #284 on: November 01, 2010, 03:14:59 PM »

"Thanks, Interested Bystander, for the advice."

You mean Interested Observer -- Bystander might not be real helpful in that.
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