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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 520637 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #225 on: August 11, 2010, 12:40:05 AM »

We are down to the short strokes now.  Things are coming together at the last minute.  The monster carbs will be here on Friday.  A recent thread discussed the damage caused by salt entering the intakes.  I thought that salt was not abrasive and the scoring and wear on my previous engine was due to grit passing through the oiled gauze filter.  I was wrong, it was salt damage.  It is time for air filtration.

Do I run pod filters or the filter in the airbox?  I used the pod filters in the past because they were easily removed when I wanted to put on the velocity stacks.  I do not need them now.  My experience with air filters on other engines tells me to do these four things.  1)  Use an air box to shield the element from road grit, major dust, water, etc.  2)  Use the biggest filter that is practical.  3)  Locate the filter away from the carb in an air box so it is not subject to pulsing airflow.  4)  Position the element so the filtering surface is vertical.  All of these increase performance and lengthen filter life.  No more pod filters.  I will use the filter in the box.

The air inside that fairing is hot when I race and that is where the standard intake is located.  Cooler air is denser and it will make me go faster.  I estimate the air inside the fairing is around 80 degrees and it is usually about 70 degrees outside.  A graph in Vizard's book on Page 12 tells me the colder air will give me a 1% torque increase.  That is not a lot but I have a severe need for more power.  Now it is time for a cold air intake.

The internal noise baffle is removed from the air box.  The aluminum filter bell mouth is from Norman Hyde in England.  I enlarge the opening 1/16 inch all of the way around.  This gives me 11 percent more opening area.  Now I go down to the plumbing supply and get a rubber adapter for connecting a 3-inch to 4-inch drain pipe.  I cut and file the adapter so it fits on the bellmouth.

I always pause in my projects and say "How can I make this extra safe so nothing falls off onto the salt."  Originally the rubber bell was going to stick out of the rear fairing.  There would be nothing to keep it in place if it came loose from the bell mouth.  I changed the design so that the fairing will keep the rubber bell in place.  The hole in the fairing is smaller than the bell hole.  The last step was to make some bars to keep my leathers from plugging the intake hole.     

 


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* Drain Pipe Adapter.JPG (82.69 KB, 448x323 - viewed 183 times.)

* IMG_1437.JPG (107.09 KB, 403x336 - viewed 192 times.)

* Intake Done.JPG (90.13 KB, 396x336 - viewed 190 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #226 on: August 14, 2010, 12:51:43 AM »

My life is a routine now.  I come home from work, take a 15 minute nap, do my chores, eat dinner, and go out and work on the bike, truck, or trailer.  Usually the bike.  About 10:30 I put the tools away, take a shower, check out the Speedweek news, the roadsters, Australian shenanigans, Sumo and Lars latest, and go to bed.  A lesson from my experience.  Concentrate on the engine, only, during the year for big motor work.  Do all of the other stuff like the exhaust, intake, carbs, etc during the next year.

The carbs arrived today just like South Bay Triumph said they would.  Is this Pandora's Box?  It is late in the game and I am tempted to put them on the shelf until next year.  Then I figure that I will learn a lot by using them this year and I had better put them on.  The box has the carbs, intake manifolds, filters, and velocity stacks.  A pretty complete kit.


* Pandoras Box.JPG (201.78 KB, 800x533 - viewed 171 times.)

* Parts a Plenty.JPG (293.02 KB, 800x533 - viewed 205 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #227 on: August 14, 2010, 11:21:50 PM »

Today I got up early and took the new carbs apart, recorded the jet sizes and needle positions, checked the float levels, and synchronized the slides.  They would not fit with the standard air box so I went back to the foam pod filters.  The bike started once and it runs OK.  I do not have the rear wheel on it so I ran it on the stand.

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #228 on: August 15, 2010, 06:12:31 AM »

  Is this Pandora's Box? 

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.

No useful help from me, but thanks for a good solid laugh grin We've all been there....
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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« Reply #229 on: August 15, 2010, 07:44:51 AM »

Today I got up early and took the new carbs apart, recorded the jet sizes and needle positions, checked the float levels, and synchronized the slides.  They would not fit with the standard air box so I went back to the foam pod filters.  The bike started once and it runs OK.  I do not have the rear wheel on it so I ran it on the stand.

The bike occasionally starts.  Most of the time the engine turns over and nothing happens.  Eventually the battery goes flat.  Sometimes it backfires.  Twice it has backfired and blown the carbs off of the manifolds.  I cannot find a choke system.  These are Keihin FCR flatslide sidedraft carbs.  Does anyone have advice?   I am too tired to post a photo.

High WW,
From memory the FCR flatslides do NOT have a choke facility, usually what you do (if their the sort with the accelerator pump) is to flick the throttle a couple of times to get some fuel into the system, then crank it over not touching the throttle until it catches, then hold it on a fast tick over until the engine is warm.

Hope this helps
Neil
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55chevr
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« Reply #230 on: August 15, 2010, 11:34:42 AM »

Been awhile since I played with Keihins but If these are CR-s there is no choke or enrichener circuit ... they are racing carburetors and do not need any stinking chokes ... pain in the Acura to start when temp is below 80 ... used to hold palm of hand over stacks to pull fuel in then blip the throttle continuously until engine developes heat ... make sure they are sinc'd or you will pull your hair out.  They will never idle.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #231 on: August 15, 2010, 06:16:45 PM »

That 2 quick twists, hit the starter button, and do not open the throttle until the engine fires trick works!  Thanks for the info.  The lambda sensor says the mix is 10:1 at idle.  This thing will idle, sort of, after it is warm.  I remember some funky amal carb from my distant past with a remote float bowl.  On a gold star or a velocette, as I recall.  It would not let the engine idle and I held my hand over the bell mouth to keep the mixture rich for starting.  It took two people to start the bike.  To onlookers, it looked like I had my hand up the rider's arse when he kicked it over.  I was the new young guy and that was the types of jobs I did.

I typed "Keihin CRF hard starting" into a search engine and it appears that many other poor slobs are unfortunate enough to own these things.  This winter I will work out a sure fire way to make them work during a cold start.  Two of my friends from the Triumph club will be my pit crew this year.  We are going to find a roller starter somewhere.  That might help.

Anyone who knows how to put an enrichener or choke on these little heifers, please put on a post or send me a PM.       

   
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55chevr
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« Reply #232 on: August 16, 2010, 05:25:07 AM »

The CR Keihins are excellent high performance carburetors. They were designed for one purpose. Wide open throttle. Everything else is a compromise and wasnt part of the original intention. They are works of art to look at. When I ran them on a Z1 it was a rocket ship. Once you got it started.
Joe
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #233 on: August 16, 2010, 07:06:57 AM »

Anyone who knows how to put an enrichener or choke on these little heifers, please put on a post or send me a PM.

get a lid( steel or plastic) that fits over the bellmouth ,cut a disc to fit on top of it , put a small bolt through the middle , cut holes either with a small hole saw or a nibbler....then you'll be able to twist the top to change the open area and give you a choke you can whip off.

five bucks.
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« Reply #234 on: August 16, 2010, 07:08:09 AM »

The connectors I use are little gold plated soldered on bullet jobs from Great Planes www.electrify.com


Is this link correct? It opens to any empty page for me.
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Tim Kelly
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #235 on: August 16, 2010, 07:16:23 AM »

It should be "electrifly.com".
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« Reply #236 on: August 16, 2010, 07:34:39 AM »

It should be "electrifly.com".

Thanks pete
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Tim Kelly
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #237 on: August 17, 2010, 01:53:39 AM »

The people who developed these carbs put a lot of work into adapting them to fit a Triumph and they gave me a good deal on them.  The folks at South Bay Triumph have helped me a lot for many years, their parts work good and they always arrive on time.  Honestly, we would not be racing if they did not help.  My negative comments in the last posts about the carbs are from a short tempered and tired guy.  I am actually fortunate to have them.

Tomorrow I will buy a new battery, clean all of the grounds including the coil ground, and verify that the charging system is working OK.  Then I will try the choke trick.  The blipping the throttle method does not always work.  Sometimes it fouls the plug with raw gas.

Thanks for the advice.  I have some time to get this figured out.  The carbs will stay on the bike if I can devise a way to start it.   
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #238 on: August 18, 2010, 12:53:13 AM »

The carb problem was ignored while I worked on the rest of the bike.  The gearing was changed and the back end was taped up.  The fuel flow to the carbs was not good.  The fuel line was kinked and I did not see this.  The kink was hidden by the fireproof cover as shown in the photo.  I put a spring around the fuel line in the kinked area and then I slipped the fireproof cover back on.  It will not kink now.

I always do a quick check of the ignition and charging systems if I have carburetor issues.  This sounds goofy, but experience is the best teacher.  I cleaned the engine ground and the ignition coil ground.  Then I wiped the coil off with a rag so it was clean on the outside and I cleaned the terminals and connectors.  Then I cleaned the fuse terminals and checked the charging system.  Some terminals were corroded.  The Honda shop load tested the battery and said it was good.  I cleaned the solenoid connections and the lug where the starter cable connects onto the starter motor.  Then I cleaned the two bolts that ground the starter motor to the engine block.

The engine started up instantly when I made the charging current test.  I took off the ammeter and it started perfectly again.  The temptation for a short blast around the neighborhood was too tempting.  It was getting dark, the bike is geared for Bonneville, and it has no lights or front brake.  I could not get up to speed but everything feels good.  Life is looking good for the Walrus right now.


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* Covered Hose.JPG (149.42 KB, 592x480 - viewed 194 times.)

* Spring on Hose.JPG (127.53 KB, 640x427 - viewed 191 times.)
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Graham in Aus
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« Reply #239 on: August 18, 2010, 04:29:24 AM »

Hi Wobbly! I'm a real fan of your meticulous analysis of all things mechanical and internal combustion, love the notes and calculations you produce.

So do you think the Carb issue was all down to the kinked fuel line? I for one am pleased things are looking good again! Of course you do realise the problems started when your partner 'pushed the envelope' and 'OK'd' the carb purchase!  wink
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