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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 519288 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #180 on: June 24, 2010, 12:27:23 AM »

The #813 cams have more valve lift than the standard cams.  This check makes sure that the new cams do not bang the valve spring retainers into the valve guide oil seals.  The chart shows a measurement A and B.  A is measured as shown in the picture.  B is too, and the valve is closed when this is done.  C is from the cam data sheet.  Some simple arithmetic gives the distance D.  This is the clearance between the spring retainer bottom and the valve guide seal top.  The cam manufacturer recommends that D be greater than 0.030 inches.

Let's imagine that I want to install a cam with higher lift in the future.  The shortest D distance is 0.087 inches.  0.087 - 0.030 = 0.057 inches.  The higher lift cam should not provide more than 0.057 inches additional lift.  More lift than 0.057 inches may be is possible if modified valve spring keepers or valve guides are installed.

 


* Keeper Seal Clearance.jpg (77.4 KB, 336x439 - viewed 214 times.)

* Distance A.JPG (61.18 KB, 448x299 - viewed 214 times.)

* Distance B.JPG (62.52 KB, 448x299 - viewed 211 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #181 on: June 25, 2010, 12:59:03 AM »

The next step is to verify that the new higher lift cam does not cause coil bind.  Also, the spring compressed lengths will be calculated to see if any springs need to be shimmed.

Coil bind occurs when the spring is compressed to the extent that all of the the coils are touching each other.  The spring is solid.  Coil bind can damage the engine.  The cam manufacturer recommends 0.015 inches gap between each coil at a  minimum.  A spring is compressed in a vise until coil bind and its length is measured.  0.015 inches is added to the compressed spring length for each coil gap.  The minimum spring compressed length is 1.082 inches as shown on the top ot the calculation page.

The distance A between the retainer spring seat and the valve tip is measured.  This is different than the "A" used in the retainer to seal gap clearance calcs in the previous post.  Distance B is measured, too.  It is the distance between the lower spring seat and the talve tip when the valve is closed.  Distance C is from the cam data card.  Some simple math tells me the compressed length for each spring.  All are less than the 1.082 inch minimum.  Not good.

Now I compress a spring to 1.037 inches in a vice.  This is the most highly compressed spring.  The gaps between the middle coils are 0.025 inches and the coils near the ends are at coil bind.  Not ideal, but the spring is not at coil bind.  The springs will work OK.

Now I look at the compressed spring lengths again.  Are any springs not compressed enough?  If so, I will put a shim under them to compress them to the same length as the others.  The shims look like machined steel washers.  No springs are long enough to require a shim.

These little calculations tell me a third thing.  The #813 cam has the most lift that the standard valve train can tolerate.  Any more lift will cause coil bind in the standard Triumph valve springs.


* Coil Bind Calcs.jpg (78.71 KB, 336x441 - viewed 208 times.)

* Compressed Spring.JPG (87.08 KB, 430x336 - viewed 204 times.)

* Measuring Coil Gaps.JPG (92.68 KB, 448x328 - viewed 208 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #182 on: June 29, 2010, 12:19:05 PM »

The valves and springs are installed.  The next task is to check to see that the valve heads do not contact each other.  This can happen during the overlap phase of the valve opening and closing cycles.  A few months ago I did calculated the larger valve sizes I would need with a big bore kit.  I also check to see if there is enough clearance to use these larger valves with this cam.  I forgot to take pictures when I did this.  Some other pictures will be used.

The head is off of the engine and the cams are installed in the head along with the correctly timed drive gears.  This is like in the picture except the cam chain is not hooked up.  There are hexes on the cam shafts.  One of the cams is slowly turned with a wrench and the other cam revolves, too. 

The other picture shows the cylinder head underside and the valves are closed in the photo.  The clearance is measured between the valve heads at the time when both valves are being lifted by the cams.  The cam data card lists the minimum clearance.  There is plenty of clearance on this engine for the valves that I have and the bigger valves that I might use in the future.

This should be done carefully.  Sometimes radically tuned engines will have valves that contact each other.  In these cases the cams are adjusted, usually by spreading the lobe center angles, so the valves do not hit each other.       



* Cams Setup in Head.JPG (84.26 KB, 448x299 - viewed 224 times.)

* Valve Head Clearance.JPG (86.43 KB, 448x299 - viewed 220 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #183 on: June 29, 2010, 01:14:44 PM »

This post is not on the subject of cams.  The bike engine is together and ready to start.  I disable the ignition and the carbs are not installed.  There are some items to check before it runs under its own power.

Rarely an oil pump will be encountered that needs to be primed before it will pull oil from the sump.  I have been advised that this might occur with the Hinckley Bonneville.  The pumps will be primed and it is a good idea for all engines when it can be done.  There are two oil pumps.  One I prime by pouring oil into the radiator from the top and the lube flows down into the pump.  The other I prime by pouring oil down onto the hole for the feed line to the oil pressure indicator light switch.  The pumps are primed and I fill the engine.  All oil feed line bolts are finger tight at this stage.

Now I slowly rotate the engine and everything turns freely in all gears and in neutral.  It is possible to put together a trans so it shifts into two gears at the same time and it locks up.  It is good to make sure this does not happen before the bike is ridden.

Both spark plugs are pulled and a compression gauge is installed on one cylinder.  I hook up the battery and spin the engine to get a compression reading.  210 psi.  Good.   Now the gauge is switched.  210 psi on the other.  Good, too.  The plugs are installed.

Oil is weeping from all fittings.  The oil is circulating to everywhere that it should.  The fittings are tightened up and the engine is installed into the frame.   

 


* Oil into pump 1.JPG (90.64 KB, 448x299 - viewed 210 times.)

* Oil into pump 2.JPG (86.77 KB, 448x299 - viewed 208 times.)

* Battery Start on Bench.JPG (90.25 KB, 448x299 - viewed 214 times.)

* Bench Compression Check.JPG (84.78 KB, 448x299 - viewed 231 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #184 on: June 30, 2010, 10:41:31 AM »

The valve head to piston clearances are checked.  Many methods have been used over the years and this one works best for me.  First, I clean all oil off the piston crowns and I put on dabs of soft modeling clay.  Then, I rub some oil on the valve heads.  I do not want the clay to stick to the valves.  Some method is needed to turn the crank.  I do not use the starter motor.  An allen wrench is used to turn the crank.  This hand method is what I want.  I will stop turning if I feel any resistance from a valve hitting a piston.

The Triumph valves are necked so the stems near the heads are narrower than the stems in the valve guides.  This improves airflow and it makes them lighter but they are easily bent.  Most of my experience with bending valves is when they nip up against the side of the valve pockets in the piston crowns.  I am very careful now.  I shim the head above the cylinders with three washers each on six of the eight studs and I do not bolt the head down.   I hook up the cams to the cam chain and drive gears.  Now I hold the head down on the cylinders with my hand and I slowly rotate the crank.  The only resistance that I should feel is the clay being squished.  Any harder resistance is a danger sign and I need to stop turning the crank.

Now I remove the drive gears and I pull the head off.  I cut the clay across the marks where the valves touched the clay.  Examining the cut clay shows me my clearances.  The clearances seem to be OK.  The process is repeated with only one washer on each stud and clearances look good.  Then is is repeated a final time with only the head gasket on and 5 lbs-ft torque on the head bolts.

The cam data card gives the minimum valve head to piston crown clearance.  All are OK.  I note that I will also have sufficient clearances with the larger valves that I am considering for the future. 

An additional step would be done if the clearances were near or at the minimum.  I would retard both cams one tooth and recheck the clearances.  This would resemble the engine if the cam chain was very worn.  I would change the chain before it was this badly worn, however. 


* Washers for Spacers.JPG (78.3 KB, 448x299 - viewed 224 times.)

* Wrench on Crank.JPG (74.54 KB, 448x299 - viewed 215 times.)

* Cutting Clay.JPG (85.19 KB, 448x299 - viewed 214 times.)

* Clearances in Clay.JPG (80.84 KB, 448x299 - viewed 220 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #185 on: July 01, 2010, 06:30:54 PM »

Cam timing was going to be the last post on cams.  The cams on these silly bikes are installed as provided.  They cannot be degreed in or adjusted, unlike the old Triumphs.  Such is progress.  A few thoughts about cams before moving on to other subjects.

The cams are part of an engine system composed of the velocity stacks, carbs, intake runners, ports and valves, pistons, exhaust, and ignition.  On the Triumph the cams and pistons are designed to work with each other.  Logical thinking extends no further.  The velocity stacks are "lucky" and I always run them, I have a bazillion jets for the carbs and they are paid for so they will be used another year, the intake runners are my work and I cannot toss them, although I should, the valve and port work is permanent and it cannot be undone, the pipes are a set of titanium Italian beauties that I got on a once-in-a-lifetime deal, and ignition black boxes are a mystery to me so I leave them alone.  Needless to say, this hokey combo does not give me optimum performance.  Maybe I will be lucky and go faster than last year.

The smart way to do this is to talk with the person that developed the cam and use the intake, exhaust, etc. that they used to develop the big horsepower when they designed the cam.  This way, everything should work together.

I always talk to the person that developed the cam before I buy.  A lot of the discussion is about whether or not it will do want I want.  All of the "fitting" topics shown in the previous posts are discussed.  Any engine work that is needed to get the bump sticks into the engine is talked about.  An "understanding" is reached.  Both of us agree about the work that I am expected to do, or to pay for, to install the cam.

Sometimes things do not go exactly according to everyone's best intentions.  Valves bang into pistons, springs bind, etc.  The cam must be reground or exchanged for another one if this occurs. Some additional engine work might be needed, like relieving pistons or shortening valve guides.  I always work with a reputable shop that will treat me fairly if this happens.

Last, cam work is not for the last minute.  Plenty of months should be scheduled to order and install the little devils.  Time to deal with the unexpected in essential.  This is all that I know about cams.     

 
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« Reply #186 on: July 02, 2010, 05:00:10 PM »

These last few days I have been at a family reunion in the hill country east of Sacramento.  It is my turn to go into town for supplies.  A bottle of bourbon is on the shopping list.  Into the likker store I go.  A big shelf of bourbons await.  What brand do I pick?  There are these bottles of Old Crow.  The bird on the label was just like the bird on the belly tank.  That stuff powers the old four cylinder engine in the tank, and probably the driver, too, I figure.  It must be good enough to fuel my relatives, so I bought a bottle.  Never underestimate the power of advertising.

Sometimes bike cases do not split easily.  The Triumph cases are very stubborn and a new pair costs $3,500.  These cases must be opened with care.  First, I reread the crankcase sections of both manuals and I look everything over real good.  I am looking for some bolts that I forgot to undo.  All bolts are removed so it is the gasket cement that is holding the cases together.

Now I find two turnbuckles, four bolts, and four carabiner clips.  Two bolts are inserted through the engine mount holes in each case and the other hardware is arranged as shown in the pictures.

The turnbuckles are turned so they expand and they put tension on the to crankcases.  Now I tap the cases around the joints and at other places with a piece of wood.  Lots of tension and shocks from the wood eventually make the crankcases pop apart.

   


* Turnbuckes.JPG (107.37 KB, 448x323 - viewed 202 times.)

* Turnbuckes Opened.JPG (88.83 KB, 448x299 - viewed 222 times.)

* Impact Force.JPG (101.4 KB, 448x299 - viewed 208 times.)

* Old Crow.JPG (94.06 KB, 405x336 - viewed 213 times.)
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« Reply #187 on: July 03, 2010, 10:12:32 AM »

 cheers  Very good choice of likkers!!!      The Arizona "Old Crow"!
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« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2010, 01:26:02 AM »

The whiskey was for my mother.  She is 89 years old, in good shape, and she takes no medications.  Maybe a drink or three a day keeps the doctor away.

The engine break in lubrication was discussed with the cam grinder and the piston and ring supplier.  Some special things were done based on their concerns and recommendations.

Break in oil is a big concern.  The Triumph uses synthetic oil and it is difficult or impossible to seat piston rings in an engine running synthetic.  I did two things to make sure the rings seated.  First, the pistons, rings, and bore were oiled with automatic transmission fluid when they were assembled.

Second, a basic mineral oil was used for the break in.  The rings would seat with this oil.  Unfortunately, this modern motor oil did not have enough zinc and phosphorous to protect the cams and followers.  Flat tappet engines like the Triumph motor need about 1,600 parts per million (ppm) zinc and 1,300 to 1,400 ppm phosphorous based on some notes I made years ago.  My notes also say that the levels should not be higher than 2,000 ppm for one of these metals or "chunking" will occur.  I did not write down if this limit was for zinc or phosphorous.  Some Red Line "Engine Oil Break-In Additive" was used to bring the zinc and phosphorous contents up to the desired levels.  I used instructions in http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html  The break in oil was used for 500 miles and it was drained.

The oil filter was changed and the regular engine oil was added.  I take advantage if the new filter element materials and I use Purolator "Pure One" or Mobil 1 "Extended Performance" filters.  This time I installed a Mobil 1 M1-108 filter.  I install a new filter during every oil change.

These engines lube the clutch, transmission, and primary gears with the engine oil.  This is not an ideal situation and the engine oil should have an additive package that is specifically designed for this.  Triumph recommends the oil meet API SG, API SH, and JASO MA specifications.  These are stringent specs.  I use Mobil 1 Racing 4T.  It meets these specs, it is designed to lubricate engines with gearboxes and clutches sharing the same oil, and the zinc content is 1,600 ppm and the phosphorous content is 1,700 ppm, as per info on the Mobil 1 website.  These metal contents are what I need.

Triumph are vague about the required oil weight.  The owners handbook recommends 15W/50, and the shop manual asks for 10W/40 or 15W/40.  These engines do not run hot and the 10W/40 is what I use and it seems to work well.  Thinner oil means requires less horsepower to pump and fling around in the engine.

This post simply tells about what I do.  It is not an endorsement for specific products.  There are others that will work just as good as the ones that I use.   

 

     



   


* Oils and Filters.JPG (101.54 KB, 448x303 - viewed 196 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #189 on: July 12, 2010, 10:47:19 PM »

The break in period is an important time for an engine and motorcycle.  The machined and ground parts rub against each other and the rough surfaces wear and become smoother, the brake pads seat, the tires scuff in, etc.  The people who supplied the pistons, rings, and cam were consulted about the break in procedures they preferred.  This is the important first step.  For example, the engine speed was kept above 2,000 rpm for the first 15 minutes of operation based on instructions from the cam grinder.

It is important to seat the piston rings before the cylinder hone marks are worn smooth.  Combustion chamber pressure does this.  The combustion pressure pushes the rings outward against the cylinder walls and this helps them seat.  Combustion chamber pressures are often highest when the engine is run hard at lower speeds.  At first, I gave the engine a few short bursts of throttle at lower to mid engine speeds.  Blasting around the neighborhood, it was.  I gradually increased the intensity and duration of these bursts as the engine broke in.  At 600 miles I was riding as I normally do.  The things I avoided during the earlier portion of the break in period were high rpm and sustained operation under heavy loads.

The old British bikes needed top to bottom service after break in, such as a complete screw and bolt tightening, cylinder head and cylinder base nut retorque, etc.  These new Bonnevilles do not need all of this attention.  All I did was synchronize the carbs, lube and adjust the chain, change the oil and filter, check the spokes, adjust the cables, and make sure the valve clearances were OK.  That's all.

My bike has over 20,000 miles on it and it was assembled with looser racing tolerances.  It is ready to race after the initial 500 mile break in.  The bikes as new are built like the old air cooled BMW's.  They are assembled with tight tolerances and they should not be raced until they are fully broken in.  My best guess is about 3,000 miles of normal street use is a good break in period before any racing.       
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« Reply #190 on: July 13, 2010, 11:50:03 PM »

The Triumph and me will be racing under a different sanctioning body this year.  I do not know how fussy they will be about technical matters and I am replacing some of the hillbilly "get 'er done" things I use.  The engine kill switch was an item I made from an aftermarket fuse block and stuff laying around the shop.  It worked OK but it looked hokey.  The replacement is a Pingel switch I bought from Tiger Racing at www.TigerRacingProducts.com  Pingel has two grades of kill switches and racers have advised me to use their best switch.  The switch is shown on the Triumph seat.

The switch connects into the ignition wiring with a standard automotive connector.  Normally I zip tie the wires to the frame on both sides of the connector.  This makes sure the connector will not be pulled apart.  I could only zip tie the wires to the frame on one side of the connector, so I put a tie on the connector.  This will make sure it is not accidentally pulled apart.

The switch is shown when it is ready to be used.  The telephone cord is tied to a zip tie on my right wrist.  The clip is pulled out from under the spring loaded button when I fall off.  The button snaps down and the ignition circuit is opened.  No electricity flows to the ignition coil and the engine stops.  The telephone cord tucks away near the headlight for street use.



* fancy Switch.JPG (86.98 KB, 448x299 - viewed 198 times.)

* Zip Tie on Connector.JPG (82.92 KB, 448x299 - viewed 199 times.)

* Switch Ready.JPG (89.53 KB, 448x299 - viewed 205 times.)

* Cord Tucked Away.JPG (80.66 KB, 448x299 - viewed 199 times.)
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« Reply #191 on: July 14, 2010, 05:47:12 AM »

Hi WW,
With regard to the lanyard on your kill switch;
The problem with that type of stretchy plastic cord, is that they break if you do not pull them out exactly squarely to the r-clip on the end. shocked
It's far safer to use a length of leather cord, or something similar with a high breaking strength. grin
The stretchy plastic type was frowned upon by scrutineers in the UK for drag racing, after a couple of rider "get offs" where the bike kept running. rolleyes

Best of luck
Neil
 cheers
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« Reply #192 on: July 14, 2010, 07:26:32 PM »

Thanks Neil.  I will use a cord.  Your motto at the bottom of your post sums up my attitude, too.
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« Reply #193 on: July 14, 2010, 07:40:50 PM »

Hi WW,
With regard to the lanyard on your kill switch;
The problem with that type of stretchy plastic cord, is that they break if you do not pull them out exactly squarely to the r-clip on the end. shocked
It's far safer to use a length of leather cord, or something similar with a high breaking strength. grin
The stretchy plastic type was frowned upon by scrutineers in the UK for drag racing, after a couple of rider "get offs" where the bike kept running. rolleyes

Best of luck
Neil
 cheers

I've found those curly cords that motorcycles use to remind them there is a disc brke lock on work well as they have a wire up the inside?
G
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« Reply #194 on: July 14, 2010, 08:39:22 PM »

Years ago in machine shop class they had safety movies.  Some poor guy was working on a lathe and he got his necktie caught in his work.  The last thing he saw was an up close view of the turning chuck.  That movie made an impression on me.  The lanyard tether is a dangling thing that can get caught in the chain, spinning wheel, etc.  Tomorrow I will try a few lanyards and figure out which one pulls the pin and is weak enough to break if it gets caught in the chain.

The bike runs like a Kawasaki 500cc blue streak triple.  Tomorrow I take it to the dyno tuner and someone smarter than me will try to tame the beast.   
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