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Author Topic: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?  (Read 28164 times)
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TrickyDicky
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« Reply #120 on: February 12, 2016, 01:58:56 AM »

What is disappointing and disheartening about BSSC is the continued advertisement of the "First car designed to go 1,000 MPH" when the team's own numbers show it will never reach that goal.
Please point me in the right direction...I've not seen or heard anything to say it can't do 1000mph.  I've spoken with Chief engineer: Mark Chapman and Chief Aerodynamicist: Ron Ayers - are you really saying they are lying to me?

Or deluded?  shocked
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TrickyDicky
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« Reply #121 on: February 12, 2016, 02:29:15 AM »

AFAIK Blue/Eric is a proper aerodynamicist (which I am not) whose views deserve to be taken seriously.  I just wish he would back up his assertions with the data from which he draws conclusions.

I would pay good money to witness a debate between Eric and Ron - supported by illustrations from projects they have worked on.  evil
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 10:09:07 AM by TrickyDicky » Logged
PorkPie
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« Reply #122 on: February 12, 2016, 12:15:21 PM »

AFAIK Blue/Eric is a proper aerodynamicist (which I am not) whose views deserve to be taken seriously.  I just wish he would back up his assertions with the data from which he draws conclusions.

I would pay good money to witness a debate between Eric and Ron - supported by illustrations from projects they have worked on.  evil


I was some years ago a witness of a debate between John Ackroyd and Ron....it was hilarious.....two totally different opinions how to reach the goal of the right aerodynamic....
but I fear, a debate between Eric and Ron....maybe Ron would stand up and walk out of the room rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
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Pork Pie

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martine
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« Reply #123 on: February 13, 2016, 06:48:44 PM »

martine

I just wish they would say less and prove more, a run or two before blowing their own horn would be nice.

Bill
Not sure I understand your comment...they are building a car, they have thrown open the full details including it's design parameters and expected performance.  They are the current LSR record holders.  I think a certain amount of horn blowing is allowed.

They've never claimed it's going to be easy and admit there is still lots to do.  The original schedule has been put back and back though a mixture of technical problems and finance.  In the meantime some 6000 UK schools and hundreds of thousands of young people have had direct involvement in the project. Over 550 'ambassadors' like myself are spreading the word across the UK and beyond.

I have the utmost respect for anyone seriously attempting to break the current LSR.  I think some of the teams worldwide that have gone public (there could be others of course) are more serious than others:  I believe Rosco McGlashan's 'Aussie Invader 2' is a good'un and he's going it on a tiny fraction of the Bloodhound budget - which is very impressive in itself.  I don't believe 'American Eagle' will come close to breaking the record - but good luck to them.

What's the problem exactly?
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Martin - Bloodhound SSC ambassador
martine
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« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2016, 08:08:44 AM »

Thanks for the post - not being an aerodynamicist, I don't understand much of what you're written - but I get the idea.

Quote
What was surprising was the way that pitching moment, drag, and downforce vs. alpha changed with porosity vs. Mach number.  Are we smarter than the other teams pursuing this record?  Maybe, maybe not.  We did ask, research, and answer a fundamental question critical to living or dying through any 1,000 MPH attempt that has still never occurred to anyone else to ask in the last 15 years of teams pursuing the ALSR.  We are willing to share this knowledge, in the hope that anyone actually attempting these speeds might live through that attempt.
Why do you think the Bloodhound team are unaware of whatever it is you talk about?  They have been there (supersonic on a fluidised surface) and done that after all.  Roy Ayes talks about the steering wheels acting more like rudders in a fluid.

Quote
As far as BSSC's weight and drag vs. where they need it to be, please re-read their own posts going back to 2008.  By their own blogs, BSSC is currently over-weight, over-drag, under-thrust, and there is no fix that will get them to 1,000 mph by their own figures.  As I tell all of my students, please don't take my word (or theirs) for it;  do the research.
Which Bloodhound posts are these from 2008 - can you point me in the write direction (a link would be nice) so I can read for myself?  

As far as power goes - don't forget they are now going to be using a smaller, hybrid rocket developed by Nammo - which can, and will, be clustered together (either 3 or 4) - this is quite different to the older design.
 

 
  
 
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Martin - Bloodhound SSC ambassador
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« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2016, 10:39:54 AM »

Martine;

It's Ron Ayres.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2016, 10:49:20 AM »

Martine;

It's Ron Ayres.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Or Ron Ayers.  rolleyes 


Chief of Aerodynamics for Bloodhound SSC.

I have been an engineer since January 1950(!) when I commenced an engineering apprenticeship at Handley Page Ltd. One of the aircraft that I worked on was the first prototype of the Victor Bomber. During my apprenticeship I was allowed some time off to study for a degree in aeronautical engineering. I subsequently continued my education at the (then) College of Aeronautics at Cranfield, now known as Cranfield University.

In 1956 I joined the Guided Weapons division of the Bristol Aeroplane Company (before it became part of the British Aircraft Corporation) as an aerodynamicist. During my 11 years at that company I held several positions including, for five years, that of Chief Aerodynamicist. One of the principal projects that I worked on was the Bloodhound surface-to-air anti-aircraft missile. Thus you can see that the name of the Bloodhound SSC record car has a provenance! I also was involved with the Rapier tactical anti-aircraft weapon.

From 1967, for over 20 years I was involved in the design and manufacture of printing machines and associated equipment.

During a period of retirement I worked as a volunteer researcher at the Brooklands Museum in Weybridge. While there I found in the archives, a batch of Vickers Armstrong wind tunnel reports from the 1920ís and 1930ís concerning research conducted on the great pre-WW2 speed record cars such as Golden Arrow, Bluebird and the Railton Special. This started my interest in record breaking. In 1992 I had a chance meeting with Richard Noble. He was already planning to repeat his Thrust 2 successes, but this time he had ambitions to exceed the speed of sound. When he found that I had, in an earlier career, specialised in high speed aerodynamics his powers of persuasion ensured that my retirement was over. We set the supersonic record in October 1997.

I subsequently became the aerodynamicist on the JCB Dieselmax project, which achieved an International Land Speed for Diesel cars of 350mph.

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martine
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« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2016, 12:49:18 PM »

Or Ron Ayers.  rolleyes  
grin

He's an amazing guy and a true gentleman.  I find it quite funny when he attends Bloodhound events to help 'man' the stand...people come up to him and ask the most basic of questions (not realising who he is) but he always gives a straight answer.  I only hope I have his energy and enthusiasm when I'm in my 80s.
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Martin - Bloodhound SSC ambassador
TrickyDicky
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« Reply #128 on: February 18, 2016, 01:34:42 PM »


Or Ron Ayers.  rolleyes  
grin

He's an amazing guy and a true gentleman.  I find it quite funny when he attends Bloodhound events to help 'man' the stand...people come up to him and ask the most basic of questions (not realising who he is) but he always gives a straight answer.  I only hope I have his energy and enthusiasm when I'm in my 80s.

Some years ago I attended a Bloodhound event hosted by the Brooklands Museum.  I happened to approach the entrance immediately behind Ron and his wife.  He didn't have a ticket (he was a speaker) and the people manning the doors were all for turning him away.  Rather than making a fuss he turned around, maybe looking for an organiser for help.  I rather firmly informed the doorperson that Ron was a Very Important Person who should probably be revered rather than turned away.  After a short pause they were convinced and Ron was allowed in.
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PorkPie
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« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2016, 05:18:14 AM »

Pork Pie, please state your CV

(PP, what's fastest you ever crashed at?)  

Blue,

what problem you got with me, why you bother me.....

you have forgotten this very nasty private mail you sent me some years ago, where you wrote that at first I had to learn proper English (sorry, but been a lurker at this website it is tough to learn a proper English...they use here only words like salt and speed...) and second, that I'm less than an amateur in aerodynamic......

I have nothing to prove......you have to....

About this nasty letter years ago....I didn't start a war here at Landracing....but I forward your letter to Jon Wennerberg.....this time I make you public....and now let me alone
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 07:07:23 AM by PorkPie » Logged

Pork Pie

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« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2016, 05:47:42 AM »

Blue.
You should be a nicer person.
Not all of us can walk on water. cool

Why are you all over Pork Pie?. Try me. My English is better. grin grin grin

You're a joke.
Shame on you. This is a cool forum with great members. Don't screw it up.
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martine
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« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2016, 10:41:44 AM »

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Which Bloodhound posts are these from 2008 - can you point me in the write direction (a link would be nice) so I can read for myself?  
I have quoted their prior posts and blogs so many times I am truly tired of it.  Given your title, if you don't have the energy to review their blogs that's your issue.
It's a perfectly civil question - the 'blogs' you talk about are where exactly...on the Bloodhound website?  Here?  Another forum?  I'm trying to understand your position but you don't make it easy.

I'm tempted to say: the UK team have had the WLSR for over 30 years now...yet all you do is belittle their efforts...but that would be rude.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 07:50:48 AM by martine » Logged

Martin - Bloodhound SSC ambassador
PorkPie
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« Reply #132 on: February 21, 2016, 07:01:55 AM »

Pork Pie, please state your CV

(PP, what's fastest you ever crashed at?)  

Blue,

what problem you got with me, why you bother me.....

did you forgot this very nasty private mail you sent me some years ago, where you wrote that at first I had to learn proper English (sorry, but been a lurker at this website it is tough to learn a proper English...they use here only words like salt and speed...) and second, that I'm less than an amateur in aerodynamic......

I have nothing to prove......you have to....

About this nasty letter years ago....I didn't start a war here at Landracing....but I forward your letter to Jon Wennerberg.....this time I make you public....and now let me alone

Blue send me an answer in a PM.....impolite and nasty as always

[/quote]

You never answered that post, or the request from others on the board as to your sources or knowledge.  If you don't want the criticism, please do better research before posting.

[/quote]

...who asked me to my sources or knowledge?.......I can't remember that I was asked.....because they know....it stand in my underline....

....I'm one of the leading historian for Land Speed Records....and I'm a witness of the most of all this records in the last couple decades....

...with "Fred" Kaesmann I done a book about the history of WLSR....this is still to today the standard book world wide....is this good enough


and now, LET ME ALONE............no PM anymore.........................if you answer get your S H I T here on the forum that everybody can read your rude notes....
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Pork Pie

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« Reply #133 on: February 21, 2016, 11:30:56 AM »

Hey PorkPie, you've had credibility & respect in the LSR community for many years with your involvement in racing & as a historian & many of us call you a friend. Don't be drawn into an unpleasant situation by arrogance no matter how highly they regard them self. Look the other way & turn a deaf ear.
  Sid.   
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PorkPie
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« Reply #134 on: February 21, 2016, 11:45:16 AM »

Hey PorkPie, you've had credibility & respect in the LSR community for many years with your involvement in racing & as a historian & many of us call you a friend. Don't be drawn into an unpleasant situation by arrogance no matter how highly they regard them self. Look the other way & turn a deaf ear.
  Sid.   

Sid,


no problem with the deaf ear....I'm deaf so or so and use hearing aids for a long time (only not at the salt.....the racers are loud enough.... grin grin grin grin)

I only like that he stops to send me PM's......and shows bad manners....

...hope he understand now....

and thanks for the support...also to Mike
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Pork Pie

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