Eaton Supercharger

[dickj]

Anybody know anything about these little blowers?  I've got one from a 90s T-bird that i want to use on an "in-progress" V4F project.  Mounted on the T-bird (as well as on all other OEM applications that I know of) they are run dry, strictly as blowers, feeding dry air from the throttle body to the EFI system. 

I'm going to use a carburetor, and would prefer setting it up as a wet system, with the carburetor sitting at the intake where the throttle body is usually found.  What effect will the fuel-air mixture going through the blower have?  I know some of these blowers are used to produce after-market wet systems, but I don't know what modifications might have been made to the blower to accomplish this.  After all, I'm just wanting to do with the Eaton what so many guys did in the fortys and fifties with 4-71s and 6-71s off of fuel injected diesels.

If need be, I can use it as a blower, with a boxed carburetor, but that old "97" really wants to be right up there on top.

DickJ

[Milwaukee Midget]

Contact Moss Motors - They've been selling a kit for MGB's, Sprites and TR-6's for some time.  Their tech guys have been first rate.

Here's how it looks on my driver



I don't know that there are any mods necessary to one that was designed to run EFI, but then I bought mine as a kit with the HIF44 SU.

Good luck, Dick!

Chris 

[NJ 03Mach1]

Anybody know anything about these little blowers?  I've got one from a 90s T-bird that i want to use on an "in-progress" V4F project.  Mounted on the T-bird (as well as on all other OEM applications that I know of) they are run dry, strictly as blowers, feeding dry air from the throttle body to the EFI system. 

I'm going to use a carburetor, and would prefer setting it up as a wet system, with the carburetor sitting at the intake where the throttle body is usually found.  What effect will the fuel-air mixture going through the blower have?  I know some of these blowers are used to produce after-market wet systems, but I don't know what modifications might have been made to the blower to accomplish this.  After all, I'm just wanting to do with the Eaton what so many guys did in the fortys and fifties with 4-71s and 6-71s off of fuel injected diesels.

If need be, I can use it as a blower, with a boxed carburetor, but that old "97" really wants to be right up there on top.

DickJ

One of the reasons they use a "dry system" (fuel AFTER the blower) is Eatons have an issue with heating up. I would think that fuel & compressed air flying through the twin screw of an Eaton, plus being heated.. could make for some interesting fireworks if it were to detonate.

I could be wrong, but I would think.. there could be some serious issues...

[Milwaukee Midget]

One of the reasons they use a "dry system" (fuel AFTER the blower) is Eatons have an issue with heating up. I would think that fuel & compressed air flying through the twin screw of an Eaton, plus being heated.. could make for some interesting fireworks if it were to detonate.

I could be wrong, but I would think.. there could be some serious issues...

Caution is the watchword, and while I've never encountered a heat issue with mine, I'm only running about 6 lb's of boost.  Be sure your pop off valve is functioning 100%.  The install manual for the B does raise this issue.  I need to keep a little choke on it until the engine is up to operating temp.

[NJ 03Mach1]

Now, another thing to thing to consider, (keep in mind I don't know your class rules or your budget) have you looked at a turbo setup with a blow through carb?

More efficient, doesn't take power to make power. Makes that power sooner then a blower and holds that curve a lot better. Also I would think, easier to to get parts for rather then mating a root's style blower to your car. Not to mention, getting a carb on it also

[RichFox]

GM 53-71-and 92 series blowers run dry in their intended use When guys tried putting them on injected diggers with just port nozzles they burned them up. So now some fuel is run through the blower to cool it. I wouldn't worry about running gas through the Eaton. I do think I would incorporate an SFI burst plate in the manifold.

[Dean Los Angeles]

For starters you have an 18 year old supercharger. I would consider a rebuild.

The Eaton M90 was used on the Thunderbird and Cougar.
Rebuild and parts info.
http://thunderbirdinfo.blogspot.com/2006/05/eaton-m90-supercharger-rebuild-and.html
Other than the backfire problem, it will work fine as a wet application. This was designed for a 3-5 liter engine, so I would hope yours in in that range.

[pookie]

Hi Dickj, Shug and Irene Hanchard run a Eaton blower on thier V4F roadster, I believe they have the record. They are located in Yuciapia[sp] Ca. They call themselves "the so what speed shop". I think they will be at the next El Mirage meet. Very nice folks, easy to talk to. Buy a t-shirt from them, they run on a very thin budget, and Shug fabs up most of special parts needed. Over & out, Mike R.

[JimL]

We have an M122 running at 14.3 psi on a 3.65 liter Toyota V6 (blowing through the NASCAR manifold).  It uses six 750cc primary injectors, at the ports, and a pair of 1000's faced into the intake air stream in the Edelbrock throttle body.  The secondary pair are used to cool the charge in the blower and manifold (when boost is high enough).

Seems to be ok, wet, ran 440+ @ 7200 during dyno tune up.  had enough pulls to wear out a couple blower belts (we are at the limit for 6-row at that boost level).  The best part about the blower was 150hp @ 1500 RPM!  I'll have to find some more recent pics....these two were from early work a few years back (not a salt motor, just a street car).

Regards, JimL

[panic]

Re "doesn't take power to make power"

Nice rhyme, but I don't agree. The mechanical parasitic drag is absent, but the exhaust pumping loss is large. There is no "free power".
"Makes that power sooner then a blower"

Roots type produces boost almost immediately - far sooner than a turbo (unless the A/R is very small)
"holds that curve a lot better"

Not sure what you mean?

[panic]

The Ford 3.8 M90 is a bit less efficient than the flow maps posted, it's Gen 3. not sure how much worse.
As to carb size, running anything smaller than the original TB (60mm = 2.36" ID, about 725 CFM @ 1.5 Hg.") will reduce boost, reduce power and increase internal temperature. Roughly, you can estimate your carb size by the usual:

N/A CFM = displacement × peak power RPM × efficiency ÷ 3,456

Now multiple by the pressure ratio:

PR = (atmospheric pressure + boost) ÷ atmospheric pressure 

E.g., at sea level and 10 psi:

14.7 + 10 = 27; ÷ 14.7 = 1.68:1

If this is for Bonneville and you have the same boost, your PR goes up, duh.
This gives the carb flow in CFM, but at a pressure drop higher than suitable for max power. This is a Holley-endorsed formula and it gives conservative results for typical V8 use, so I suspect it works near the standard 4 bbl. 1.5 Hg" pressure.

I'm not sure exactly what the Ford intake port looks like inside the case, but the transition from the TB area to the lobe entry is by far the hottest area (indicating a flow problem). I'm not sure if enlarging the port straight through will improve this at all, although the later Ford has a bigger port externally.
The easy part is the discharge - think shape, not size.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Yep, panic is right on it. I posted the gen 5 because it's more useful than nothing. The later versions sealed better and had better numbers.

The conversation isn't about turbos, he already has the blower. There are pluses and minuses for both types. Some people just like blowers, or end up with something that has it already.

Any type of pressure is more fun than those poor normally aspirated dudes.

[panic]

Here are some Ford M90 intake variants


Simple exhaust port mod

[Milwaukee Midget]

have you looked at a turbo setup with a blow through carb?

Correct me if I'm reading the rule wrong, but if Dick's running vintage tin, I don't think he's permitted to run a turbo on a vintage flathead four.

[Morpheus]

    Milwaukee, nice setup on your B.... methinks my TVR would like some of that !