nos to alcohol

[willieworld]

i would like to run in the fuel and gas class --ive been running nos and havent had much luck--i would like to switch to alcohol for the fuel class---any help would be greatly appreciated   thanks  willie buchta

my motor is a 1000cc pushrod motor with 10.250 to 1 compression --it has a 3.50 bore and a 3.125 stroke --i shift it at 7000 rpm-------------------------------------

[landracing]

You run a harley,,, put nitro in it for fuel class...

jonAmo

[fredvance]

I dont know too much about alcohol but I think you will need about 3points more compression to make it work.

[RC]

Willie:
          Try Bob Wood at www.woodcarbs.com ...he was very helpful when I called him for help with cylinder heads even though it wasn't his product.

                                                                                     RC

[joea]

willie, do you really want to make that switch, and make
much less potential hp..........for a fair amount of extra work.......

I fully realize your losing confidence in the nitrous..........

imho......there are two choices to poor mans hp........nitrous
or turbo............

and though I garnered some speed with nitrous...it took awhile....and
in the long run.......it would have been infinitely cheaper to go turbo
much sooner........

but if your persistent enough.....you CAN make the nitrous work for
you and not against you.........although.........air cooled definately
makes it abit more challenging........

dont give up yet....we all have more persistence than money....

[SPARKY]

Joe---NOBODY---has earned the right to post on this subject than YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stainless1]

Joe---NOBODY---has earned the right to post on this subject than YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless it is me...     Willie, there is a thread here about running N20, it has a lot of discussion about flowing your gas and N20 jets by weight to get your ratios right.   If you don't have a fine filter on the gas add one.   Joe is correct, N20 is cheap HP, you just have to eliminate the gremlins that inhabit that blue bottle... 

if you really want to do alcohol, call Aaron at NRHS, they advertise on the site
See ya on the salt   

[landracing]

Yeah we can give you some tips on how to warm the nitrous bottle in the motel room on those really cool October mornings, we can further tell you the secrets on how to warm the nitrous bottle on the way to the salt in the cool mornings (dont need no stinkin bottle warmer) and how to survive using a 60 lb filler bottle that took a tumble down the highway at 75 mph.. .you know all those speed secrets, along with the highly developed Amo Anti Galling Compound that works VERY Well in Nitrous applications... We further developed it for Turbo motors...

JonAmo

[SPARKY]

 :evil:LOL

[willieworld]

one of my own personal goals (since there is no one in my class although i have ran 11 mph over the minimum at el mirage) was to run faster than the A-PF record which is 153 and change ---im only about 11 mph off --i should of did that 11 mph first and then i would have the easy 11 mph left --20  20 hindsight --im going to run in the gas class at the world finals then switch back to the fuel class for the last 2 races at el mirage this year and see if i can get it done -----thanks guys see you on the salt    willie buchta

[racin jason]

Willie,

we ran over 150lb of nitrous through a stock yamaha engine over three years trying to catch Joe Amo!
Never did beat him but we never hurt a stock engine (60hp kit)
We changed pistons and went through some problems thou.

Bottle size and pressure are important as well as fuel pressure. A low fuel px switch can save you an engine. the fuel pumps that are supplied in the kits are usually junk throw a high quality pump with regulator on and you should be flying. we picked up 26mph with a 60 shot and 21 mph with a 40 shot.

[Dean Los Angeles]

The power added by nitrous is tough to beat.

If you are going to run methanol it isn't too tough. It runs much cooler than gasoline, just twice as much. You gain about 22 percent over gasoline. You would have to just about double the area of the jets over gasoline. You would need about 6 degrees more advance for the different burn characteristics. Methanol has a high affinity for water. You have to be careful in storage to keep it sealed and off the concrete or it can go south in a hurry. Methanol and nitromethane attack metals and rubber so it's a good idea to run gasoline through the system when you are finished with the race.

The real gains are made with nitromethane. 122 percent more power than with gasoline. But you don't have to run big percentages. If it was me, I would start with 20% nitromethane and 80% methanol. Very manageable for your motor with significant gains over gasoline. Your current compression should handle that, with about 40 degrees total advance for the slow burn characteristics. At 20% you would be about 22% larger in jet area over 100% methanol.

Always push to the rich side. Like methanol, nitromethane has a strong tendency to pre-ignition, but unlike methanol it has a much lower knock rating, it will detonate. The plugs should be about 2 ranges colder than you run with gasoline.

If you up the percentage you need to back off the compression ratio. At 50% you should be running 12:1 compression ratio. Maybe 9:1 for 75%.

As I write this I tell myself not to write a book, but its hard. Running fuel can be as hard as nitrous, but mostly when you start tipping the can hard.

In either case, there is no substitute for running it on the dyno and test runs before the race.

[joea]

hopefully Aaron Wilson of NRHS will chime in as he has
developed all three of these "applications"......and most importantly 
on your choice of powerplant.......air cooled v-twin baby......

if he doesnt chime in.......get ahold of him........he is awesome.....all three
choices "look easy".......

Max would be a great choice as well.....
on the nitro thing...


and Willie.......GOOD ON YOU....for having the wisdom to seek
insight....

Joe

[Dean Los Angeles]

Willie has the advantage of several thousand years of experience available on his keyboard.

When I started running fuel there was no such thing. You had to ask around and the advice you got was either good or terrible depending on the source, but you had no way of knowing. So I blew up a bunch of stuff learning. It was still terrific fun.

I heard a comment back in the 60's, and I forgot who the tuner was, when his rider dominated an AMA national race some one commented that that was a perfect race. His reply was that the engine was still running at the end of the race. For it to be perfect, as the rider crossed the finish line a lap ahead of everyone else, the engine had to explode, the fuel tank had to be empty, and the frame had to break in two. That would be perfect. Otherwise the engine still had more power to give, too much fuel was carried and the frame was too heavy.

[willieworld]

i used to tell everyone that all of the knowledge of mankind is written in a book at the library---now its at your fingertips in your own home--- but most people are sending stupid jokes or playing a stupid game ---go figure--------------------willie buchta

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