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Author Topic: Streamline 650cc motorcycle - Superfast One  (Read 33571 times)
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2008, 05:20:33 PM »

If you make it small, getting in and out of the thing is a trick.  If those handle bars are stationary, and can't be made to get out of the road to make a hole for you to slide into, that could present a problem. 

I assume that you're going to have some sort of an air shifter for the tranny.  It doesn't look like your going to have much room, suggest you use the frame for your air tank. 

Remember to have a battery source for your roll over switch. 

It's a good idea to also have a cockpit shut off valve for the fire extinguishing system.  In a small cockpit such as yours, when the fire bottles are fired, it purges all oxegen almost immediately.  The driver needs a little air. 

Speaking of air you have to have the cock pit vented.  One of the rules.

                                      Max
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« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2008, 05:30:00 PM »

Make sure you have a 5 point safety harness.  Look at the rule book on this one.  When you're lying on your back the anchoring points for the shoulder straps are critical.  No CAD is gonna figure this out. 

It's a good idea to have leg restraints as well.  Might be difficult in your case, as it looks like your feet are going to be on both sides of the front tire.  Could be figured out I suppose. 

The scrutineers will take your hands, and put them together in a praying position.  The wrist restraints must be so attached somewhere so as to prevent your arms and hands from being forced to the outside of the liner when the canopy's open.
I solved the problem with a couple of more pieces of tubing on the frame.

                                         Max
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2008, 05:32:40 PM »

The Vincent streamliner is 23 and 1/2 feet long, and it's filled from one end to the other with stuff. 

I also suggest you add a couple of feet to yours, it'll make life easier a little later on.

                                          Max
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sockjohn
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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2008, 05:48:12 PM »

Superfast,

How do you intend to vacuum form the body?  Vacuum into a mold?  If so, how do you intend to make the mold?  I'm working on one of these myself and have run up against the problem of making smooth compound curved surfaces.

Thanks,
Jim.

FWIW, I've put fittings for an air hose into the mold to aid in removal of the part from the mold.  Works real well if the wax is put in way too thin or some idiot misses a spot.  Beats prying on the part and mold any day, but overkill in most applications.

I imagine the same could be done with a vacuum fitting, but I've never tried that. 

It might be worth looking into some of the canopy manufactures for kit planes and light aircraft, as they produce  high quality work.  They would either be a good source of info of how to do it, or a good supplier for a custom part.

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Sumner
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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2008, 07:04:44 PM »

Great, great advice Max, mind if I take some of it myself?  I'll do the tail like you mentioned and I'm also thinking of adding a couple more bars on the sides of the cage so I can have my arm restraints a tad longer.  This also came up while talking to Lee Kennedy the other day about another cage question.

Matt one more thing that gave me fits is actually getting in and out.  When you are in the position shown in your liner ..............



........or in my car ...................



.......... to get into the car you have to, at least in my case, sit on your butt with your knees up to your chin and your back against the upper hoops.  Then slide your legs forward into the front of the foot box area. Then you have to slide forward on your butt and flex your legs at the knees so they come up into the top of the cage area.  The sliding forward is so you can then get far enough forward to get your head with the large helmet on it down to the point where you can slide backwards under the hoops in the cage over your head. 

The key to all of that happening is the ...............



............ cross bar by your steering (the left arrow in the picture).  In your pictures you show it high right in front of your hands.  You will be looking under yours if you build it like is shown.  That would help.  In my case I have to look over it and wanted it as low as possible.  I spent a ton of time getting that one bar in where I could still get in and out of the car, by getting my knees past it (under it) and having the area in front of it high enough for my knees to go up into when I have to slide forward getting in and out and yet not so high as to block my vision.

Make sure you have a helmet at this point that is current.  My old motorcycle helmets were way too small to use for fitment.  Then someone gave me a more current one, much larger.  Then I recently got my legal 2005 helmet and it is larger yet.  I fit, but it is getting tighter all the time.  I have a real incentive now not to put on weight or someone else will be driving.  Also maybe you aren't as long in the legs as I am, I'm 6-1.  The legs are the problem as they only bend so far.  As tight as it is I've gotten out of the car suited up and to the phone across the shop in 4 rings, but I still have more stuff that has to go in there.

Remember we aren't criticizing just giving you some things to think about that maybe you have all worked out.

c ya and thanks again Max for the great info (anyone building a streamliner, bike/car or a lakester or even a modified roadster pay attention to those posts),

Sum
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2008, 08:07:01 PM »

Great start and concept! Just a word of caution regarding the lexan windshield, to get a good one will probably cost you more than your car! I heard that when GM had the  lexan windshield for their "lakester" made it cost $50,000! I have a friend that has spent over $4000 for a number of lexan windshields that make you seasick if you look thru them! Listen to Max, he is giving you a ton of great advice that he has learned the hard way, experience!

Rex
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« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2008, 08:10:45 PM »

Matt, have you worked in a Formula SAE team?

good to see some good front end project planning.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 08:12:19 PM by gazza414 » Logged

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dwarner
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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2008, 08:20:40 PM »

Experience has shown that a compound curve Lexan windshield combined with the compound curved visor on your helmet will result in your vision being be severly compromised.

Cost is a factor as mentioned. Flat surface windscreens are the best solution.
DW
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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2008, 09:49:39 PM »

......another point on the belts before I forget it.  In a sitting position like this your butt is right on the bottom of the car, so the lap belts and crotch belts attach right next to your butt on the sides or maybe slightly below it.  Herein lies the problem especially for the two lap belts.  You have hardware on both ends of the webbing, at the bottom attach point and on the top where all the belts come together.  To attach the hardware to both of those points it goes through slots in the end of the hardware and doubles back and is sewn to itself.  By the time you have the hardware, sewn webbing  and adjustable part that takes up the slack the adjustable strap gets very short and you can be out of adjustment and not be able to pull those belts tight since you run into all the hardware and webbing.

Talk to whoever is making your belts for you if you think this could be a problem and have them make the sewn webbing part as short as possible and still have it meet the sfi specs.

Also it is pretty critical where the lap belt goes over your hips to work well, so Lee Kennedy said that some are now putting in attach points there with multiple holes in the fore/aft relationship on the car so the belts can be moved for different drivers or for final fit.  A good idea that I would do if I did it again.

I still have a little adjustment where it can be pulled a little tighter if I was too loose a little weight, unlikely, but when my friend Shawn that probably weighs 130 gets in the car the lap belts can not be pulled tight enough. 

I'm now on a controlled weight program where I can't loose much or gain much as everything fits that close for me.

If I'm not clear here on a potential problem area PM me and I can call you or you can call me.  Don't loose any sleep over any of this, they are just potential problems that are waiting to be solved.

c ya,

Sum
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 09:52:04 PM by Sumner » Logged

salt27
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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2008, 10:03:56 PM »

I assume there is a 20 second bail out test for streamliners and lakesters?

  Don
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Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2008, 10:47:26 AM »

Well, I thought about it, I looked at the CAD model, and I decided I'm going to make it about 4 inches longer, adding area to the short section between the driver and the engine (currently where the fuel tank, 10# fire bottle, and electronics are.)  Not quite the two feet suggested, but still more room.  I'm going to leave it empty, labeled "misc."

Also, I think I will go ahead and design the rear to be suspended and see how it looks.  Can anyone say for sure that the bike will be measurably faster suspended?  if so, why?  Is it because fully rigid will skip across the top of small bumps, and if that's the case, is the non driven wheel important too for some other reason?

My plan with the vacuum formed plastic was to make a mold with foam, similar to the way you would for fiberglass, and then take it to a vacuum form place.  I'll have to check cost and compare, that's a long way away though.

Gazza, I was on an FSAE team, U of Oklahoma. 
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2008, 10:58:21 AM »

The surface of the salt is too variable to count on it being perfectly smooth, therefore not needing a suspension.  Some years the salt is flat as a three-day-old beer, and you'd be fine without anything other than a pneumatic tire.  Other times you'd lose your teeth and your vision it's so bump, and also the driven wheel would be airborne enough that you'd have a difficult time getting power to the ground at speed (the tire would be up in the air and spinning to no good, and it'd also spin for a moment when re-contacting the ground).

At 200 you're traveling nearly 300 feet/second -- or, to put it another way, it takes about 3 milliseconds to move from the top of a bump to the flat surface beyond it.  How far down will the unsuspended driven wheel fall in 3 ms?  With some suspension you've got a better chance of keeping the wheel hooked up.

My opinion, others may vary.
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« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2008, 11:54:55 AM »

I assume there is a 20 second bail out test for streamliners and lakesters?

  Don

Don I don't know if I ever remember actually seeing a 20 sec. bail out test, but I could be wrong.  I've seen the bail out test where to me they seemed to be concerned about an orderly, rehearsed get out where you are hitting the chute, fire bottles, restraint release and then exit in an orderly smooth, un-panicked manner.  Sure this can't take a minute but I don't know if there is a strict 20 sec. rule in effect.  Maybe JD or Dan or someone else in tech could elaborate on this as I know it is an area of concern for all of us at one point or another.

c ya,

Sum
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RichFox
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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2008, 12:25:49 PM »

I have participated in a number of timed bail out drills with different drivers in my cars. I believe any of them could have left a lot faster had there been fire.
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gazza414
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« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2008, 02:42:03 AM »

I'm sure you'll do well  Matt, you have a huge advantage with your background being in a F SAE team..... you just need all your buddies to help out NOW !!!!!!!!!! its a big task to get it right. rolleyes

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1 FAST HAYABUSA 217.443mph so far
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Very much the apprentice
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