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Author Topic: Streamline 650cc motorcycle - Superfast One  (Read 33532 times)
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2008, 02:17:42 PM »

I'm going to chime in again about making it longer. The stability is better and you are GOING to need the room. I'm not sure what Kent is referring to when he said it's not legal for SCTA. It looks good to me, but Kent is an expert.

There must be a hundred tubing benders within 50 miles of you. On the other hand, $200 doesn't sound like that much.

John mentioned a neck restraint. They are not required for motorcycles, but not a bad idea either.

You mentioned welding the center section of the wheel. That's in the car section. Read only the motorcycle section unless it specifically refers to the car section.

Anything that is non-standard, like the front tire, you need to run past the motorcycle technical committee. Talking to Tom Evans at a Sidewinders meeting will get you the information, but I would submit it in writing to cover your Acura.

What is the body going to be made from? If you are doing composite you might want to talk to Kent. http://www.motobody.com/

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Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.
bak189
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« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2008, 02:24:26 PM »

A misconception needs to be cleared up regarding the statement "you better plan on racing the BUB, it will never pass SCTA/BNI Tech"
Tech. at the BUB is as good if not better than any of the other landracing clubs......but if something is not correct as to the written rule...
it is OPEN TO DISCUSSION...............this is certainly
in my mind a proper way to handle Tech................
And you will never hear the famous cop-out
"insurance will not allow it "
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willieworld
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« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2008, 02:33:55 PM »

matt --i would be glad to bend any tubing you need bent for 10 dollars a bend --in the 1/14 od i only have a small radis --i think its 3 in---200 dollars is way to much for 2 bends --if you want to spend that much if you buy me the die i will be glad to make your bends  (up to 20)  willie buchta
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willie-dpombatmir-buchta
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« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2008, 06:19:36 PM »

Never mind
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 11:44:11 AM by panic » Logged
Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2008, 11:27:05 AM »

i'm not 100% on the body, but this is what i have so far:



The top front will be lexan, likely vacuum formed.  The rest probably fiberglass, in my garage with a lot of cursing and bleeding.  I was thinking of doing the whole thing with vacuum formed lexan.  As far as the shape, any suggestions would be very welcome, and I would be glad to do CFD runs and post my results for different ideas you have. 

As far as the wheels, the streamline motorcycle rules state that in all classes > 200MPH, wheels must be made for racing or reinforced per 2.G.  2.G is a car section that talks about lug nuts and some other stuff, the only thing I see that could be applicable to streamlined motorcycle is welding the rim to the center section.  For the record, on a cast aluminum wheel, I think this is an awful idea and I would be very surprised if any OEM aluminum motorcycle wheel was destroyed at anything less than 500MPH.  unless of course you weakened it by welding on it.  Can anyone clarify this?

« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 11:29:48 AM by Superfast Matt McCoy » Logged
Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2008, 12:19:55 PM »

 grin
Talked to Sam Wheeler awhile back.  He said, "People are always telling me they're thinking about building a motorcycle streamliner, and asking if I have a word of advice for them.  I say yes.  Don't."

All kidding aside, I wish you all the best on your project.  Any questions, just give a hollar.

                                     Max
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Sumner
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« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2008, 12:39:55 PM »

i'm not 100% on the body, but this is what i have so far:



The top front will be lexan, likely vacuum formed.  The rest probably fiberglass, in my garage with a lot of cursing and bleeding.  I was thinking of doing the whole thing with vacuum formed lexan.  As far as the shape, any suggestions would be very welcome, and I would be glad to do CFD runs and post my results for different ideas you have. 

As far as the wheels, the streamline motorcycle rules state that in all classes > 200MPH, wheels must be made for racing or reinforced per 2.G.  2.G is a car section that talks about lug nuts and some other stuff, the only thing I see that could be applicable to streamlined motorcycle is welding the rim to the center section.  For the record, on a cast aluminum wheel, I think this is an awful idea and I would be very surprised if any OEM aluminum motorcycle wheel was destroyed at anything less than 500MPH.  unless of course you weakened it by welding on it.  Can anyone clarify this?

A couple things to maybe think about. 

Do you think you might ever run blown?

Distortion on the canopy? 

I still wonder where you are going to package some items.  The back seems to taper in a little early if you are going for 7 deg. or less and still want to get in chute tubes and have them clear the front of opening doors.  I recently ran into that problem myself when my initial trig calculations where wrong.  Ending up having to move the chute tubes further back and lengthen the car 2 more feet.  Not all bad as I quickly used up the room where the chutes were with two batteries.

I realize you are probably tired of hearing about it, but maybe you are trying to go too short on the length and for what gain, but a small amount less wetted area on the drag.

The body shape itself looks good.  Maybe extend the front a little and skirt the front and rear wheels in.  The added lenght might also give you a place for the fire bottles.

One question for you or anyone.  The bottom taper upwards behind the wheel, what good does that do other than there again slightly less wetted area?  I ask because I have to decide myself what to do in that area on my car.

c ya keep the pictures and ideas coming.....they are good for us also....makes us think,

Sum
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 12:42:46 PM by Sumner » Logged

Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2008, 01:33:01 PM »

I have throughly considered shortening the bike and making the cockpit wider.  I do appreciate the suggestions but I reserve the right to respectfully disagree.  The great benefit of a CAD model is you can package everything before you make it.  the fire bottle is behind the driver, you can't see it because the fuel tank is in front, but it's there.  I also have the intake, turbocharger, exhaust, and coolant tank modeled but not in that picture.  I want it short for transportation, storage, and yes, drag area.

Feel free to say I told you so if that day comes.  smiley

I will likely lengthen the rear behind the tire when I add the chutes and frame to hold them, but the basic structure will stay the same.  The body is in rough draft form, so it will likely get longer, and I will add skirts for the wheels.  probably I will also have the nose stick out farther forward so the air doesn't immidiately hit the tire.

How do you all feel about having the engine air inlet at the tip of the nose, in the stagnant high pressure area?  not necessarily for power, but to reduce drag.

the rear tapers upward behind the rear tire to give some downforce.  i havn't done the CFD to see if/how much, but I'll let you know.
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Sumner
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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2008, 01:50:28 PM »

................I do appreciate the suggestions but I reserve the right to respectfully disagree.  ...................

For sure it is your liner and you have given it way more thought than any of us.


..................Feel free to say I told you so if that day comes.  smiley..................

That's not me.

...................How do you all feel about having the engine air inlet at the tip of the nose, in the stagnant high pressure area?  not necessarily for power, but to reduce drag..................

I think that is the best, and tried to figure how to do it, but the packaging of getting it in there and past the front suspension and myself and the long track back to the engine kept me from doing it.  Sam has done it with...



........E-Z-Hook and also has packaged a lot in a very small area.  Pictures on his site....

http://streamliner.com/

and on mine....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/b-ville%20meets/2006%20BUB-3.html

......... he also has a very low angle vision line through his canopy.  Have you seen his in person?  It would be well worth it to do so if you haven't as design considerations are very similar to what you would like to do......[/quote]

...........the rear tapers upward behind the rear tire to give some downforce. ...................

Thanks and if you model it I would like the results and also if you do it without the taper the results and the difference.

c ya,

Sum
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JimW
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« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2008, 01:51:01 PM »

Superfast,

How do you intend to vacuum form the body?  Vacuum into a mold?  If so, how do you intend to make the mold?  I'm working on one of these myself and have run up against the problem of making smooth compound curved surfaces.

Thanks,
Jim.
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roadtrip
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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2008, 04:09:41 PM »

Since you're still in the design stage, is there a possibility to design the structure in two pieces?

From the nose thru final drive could be one integral structure terminating in an aircraft style bulkhead plate, then the aft structure would have a matching bulkhead, to be bolted together. It would give you some design stretchability, more room for chute tubes, coolant, fire supression, give you more aero length options and maybe help with transportation and storage.

Just a thought.
DS 
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2008, 04:25:01 PM »

Smooth compound surfaces? You can do what Ron Main did with the Speed Demon. Take the 3D drawings and use it to machine the mold on a CNC! Then take it to Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites and have them make the body.

If you are going to rely on your 3D expertise make sure you have the items in your possession and re-measure them. It's surprising how many lumps, bumps, and protuberances don't show on drawings and some how show up on the one you buy that wasn't on the one you looked at in the store. Check all of them for screwdriver/wrench access. You don't want to dismantle everything to pull a hose off.

In the heat of battle when you are fighting the demons to get something fixed before the next run you are going to REALLY wish you had more room.

Quote
One question for you or anyone.  The bottom taper upwards behind the wheel, what good does that do other than there again slightly less wetted area?

Keeps the body from hitting when you are doing wheelies.  tongue
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Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.
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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2008, 04:56:11 PM »

As far as the rear sloping upwards, it looks good, but aerodynamically it aint.  I had my fifth streamliner in the wind tunnel up in Vancouver B.C.  The ribbons attached to that area were everywhere.  The suggestion was to keep this area the same distance off the salt as it's belly.  My present configuration only goes up 1 and 1/2 inches in nearly 6 feet. 

The fire bottle I think, is going to have to be plural, unless the SCTA rules have changed in the last few years.  It boils down to this.  Black Lightning has to have two fire bottles.  In my case two ten pounders of halon 13 to pass tech.  However, I'm running blown fuel, which makes a difference if you read the rules. 

Insure you have a sealed metallic bulkhead between the cockpit and the fuel tank.  The venting of the fuel tank must be so made as to not spill any fuel in case of a roll over. 

                                          Max
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« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2008, 05:03:25 PM »

If you see Sam's liner in real life, take note.  The lexan canopy was vacuum formed.  He couldn't see out of the thing due to the distortion, as it was all compound.  His solution was to cut the area out, which is very small, and screw on a piece of flat lexan over the hole he cut. 

The only way that I was able to eliminate distortion was to go to a dolphin shape.  All flat lexan, so you're not peering through too much lexan, which also creates distortion, I found out that you couldn't exceed  the minimum of 18 degrees angle. 

                                       Max
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« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2008, 05:09:19 PM »

As far as the rigid suspension, Bob George built the Jammer, which later became the 322+ record holder, Easy Rider, for 16 years.  Bob ran a rigid rear, also at one time replaced the coil over shock on the suspension to the front.  Didn't work.  The Easy Rider machine had suspension, both front and rear. 

Don Vesco, who I think was probably the premier authority on such matters, would not build a streamliner without suspension on both wheels, and he leaned towards a soft suspension. 

                                        Max
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