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Author Topic: Streamline 650cc motorcycle - Superfast One  (Read 33524 times)
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willieworld
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2008, 12:17:00 PM »

kent----   could you tell us why it wont be safe or legal for an SCTA event  willie
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John Noonan
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286 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike




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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2008, 12:19:46 PM »

Willie...

Looks like the seating position with regards to safety belts and also perhaps the field of vision requirements for liners, might even be more...front tire..?
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Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2008, 12:23:07 PM »

Expected top speed is above 250, based on horsepower and CFD, and reduced by what i call a "reality coefficient".

Regarding the tube bending, it is possible that I am underestimating the cost of tube bending.  I did all the other bends in about 45 minutes, so I find it hard to swallow $200 for three bends, especially when i could just buy the die for $210.  I have a budget that i suspect is reasonable (albeit small) and so far I've come in under budget on everything. 

Chute placement was a joke, of course it will go in the back.

There is not much difference between the 600RR and the F4i, aside from a stacked transmission and a 1mm bigger exhaust valve, and some other stuff that doesn't really affect me.  The horsepower limit on any engine is dictated mostly by RPMs, displacement, and the piston's ability to handle cylinder pressure.  With Ti valvetrain components and forged pistons on the list of stuff to by, this puts both of these engines at about the same level.  I'm sure the 600RR is as good, but i have beat the living hell out of many F4i's and am utterly amazed at their ability to cope with abuse.  And I'm pretty sure I could rebuild the top end blindfolded.  Also I had a full, accurate F4i CAD model.

I am doing most of the fab work.  there will be a few laser cuts (and about three bends) that I will have to get done elsewhere.

There's a place for a ten pound fire bottle between the driver and the engine.  you can see part of it in the picture. it's red and shares that place with the electronics and fuel tank.  i'll likely stick another 3-ish pound bottle, maybe under the drivers legs.

I understand the importance of aerodynamics.  Has anyone done any testing on flow separation of streamliners? 

The riding position is uncomfortable and tight, but i am a relatively small 20-something in good shape.

It is wanter cooled and the take will go in the area above the engine, just behind the intake.

"Are you going to look out under that one loop and out through the nose?" that is the plan

"yep ya might as well plan on running the Bub event as it wont be safe or legal for SCTA" I plan on running bub, but would also like to get some runs in at El Mirage.  What, specifically, would keep me from doing this?  Can someone give me some specificity on the field of vision.  With that setup I can see the horizon in front for over 120, except for that roll hoop which I would rather not take out for safety reasons.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2008, 12:24:04 PM »

Superfast, you might go through the Archives here and scout around in other memories -- for stuff on the Team Arrow bike 'liner.  It hasn't run for two years (I think that's right), but it did get Gary Hensley into the 2 Club -- running a turbo Honda 600 motor (don't know which model engine).  You might pick up some good stuff from what they've done - there might be similarities that could help you as you design.  By the way, I remember seeing over the past winter that they were looking for a rider/pilot for the bike.  I don't know if they've found one, but if they have -- I look forward to seeing them again.  I asked -- but I'm about a foot too tall to fit inside the bike.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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willieworld
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2008, 12:30:07 PM »

thats whats nice about the planning stage anything could be changed--instead of telling the guy go to bub --why not give him some suggestions and point him to the right place in the rule book--i would but i know nothing of streamliners --john is right about the front tire but if you want to run it you could try and get it approved --i dont know anything about that either --i know it has to be done 45 days before prior to the meet --to the contest board---if it were me i would use a tire that could be easily replaced and a much smaller size --better areo--better vision-- just some thoughts  willie buchta
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John Noonan
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286 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike




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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2008, 12:32:39 PM »

Superfast, you might go through the Archives here and scout around in other memories -- for stuff on the Team Arrow bike 'liner.  It hasn't run for two years (I think that's right), but it did get Gary Hensley into the 2 Club -- running a turbo Honda 600 motor (don't know which model engine).  You might pick up some good stuff from what they've done - there might be similarities that could help you as you design.  By the way, I remember seeing over the past winter that they were looking for a rider/pilot for the bike.  I don't know if they've found one, but if they have -- I look forward to seeing them again.  I asked -- but I'm about a foot too tall to fit inside the bike.

Slim,

Garys bike was a debored Honda engine and I do recall it was a 600F4 as well, (I designed the pistons for it) it was destroked to get it in to the 500 class...

Matt,

It looks like you are on the right track and it will be cool to follow your build along the way..take lots of pictures please.. cheesy
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2008, 12:37:26 PM »

Yeah, that's right -- thanks for the reminder, John.  They pitted next to Nancy and me in their record-setting year, and now I remember that the engine was made smaller.  The next step, I think I remember, was going smaller still -- maybe it was to run only two cylinders...
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2008, 12:53:01 PM »

The front tire is actually rated to 250MPH.  It's also rated for huge landing loads and pressures, so I'm sure i could go through all of Michelin's data and mathematically show that it is capable of at least 300mph in my application when shaved.  The part that worries me is that it is used and not rated for flying so most of the data has been scraped off the side.  It still has the part # and I can print out the data sheet (http://www.airmichelin.com/pdfs/MILF16AV.pdf).  I'll get together some data and run it by one of the old motorcycle techs and the next sidewinders meeting.  I'll let you know how it goes.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 12:57:50 PM by Superfast Matt McCoy » Logged
Sumner
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« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2008, 01:01:21 PM »

The front tire is actually rated to 250MPH.  It's also rated for huge landing loads and pressures, so I'm sure i could go through all of Michelin's data and mathematically show that it is capable of at least 300mph in my application when shaved.  The part that worries me is that it is used and not rated for flying so most of the data has been scraped off the side.  It still has the part # and I can print out the data sheet (http://www.airmichelin.com/pdfs/MILF16AV.pdf).  I'll get together some data and run it by one of the old motorcycle techs and the next sidewinders meeting.  I'll let you know how it goes.

At the 6000-8000 lb. load rating and the speed rating I would think it would pass if you submit it, so maybe do that soon since you are designing the front around it.  Can you get more??  Stuff happens as we found out with one of our tires last year.

It sounds like you have considered most of the areas of concern.  I would also look at the Buddfab site...

http://www.geocities.com/buddfab/buddfab3

........... if you haven't already as they have done a fantastic job of packaging.

I have links to other sites like what SSS has mentioned here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bvillelinks.htm

.... good luck,

Sum
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John Noonan
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286 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike




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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2008, 01:04:18 PM »

Matt,

Do you have a drawing already for the body style and will you make it also?  If you have a draft or drawing can you post it?

Since you stated you have a budget would you care to share what you have figured for anything you have to buy that you already do not have at this time?

Keep em comin.. cheesy
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MCR
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2008, 01:05:12 PM »

Wow!!  Looks very slick.  shocked

Minor thing you've probably already addressed:

Turbo need to have full flow oil drain or they will coke the bearings.  Probably not important for LSR entries though.

If it is, mounting the charger center section higher than the sump is normal mounting.  Allow at least 2" up and a 1/2" dia or larger drain.  

How many RPM and boost are you targetting?  Methanol?
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John Romero
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2008, 01:18:58 PM »

The riding position is uncomfortable and tight, but i am a relatively small 20-something in good shape.

Looks like you are making a nice start of it.

Have you considered all the safety equipment required in the cockpit? It does look tight, which is fine so long as you can fit but fitting in levis, tennis shoes and a t-shirt is very different that doing it with a full -10 firesuit and some sort of HANS or R3 neck restraint on. They are entirely different and is a very common new car problem.

Otherwise, good luck and post lots of pictures.
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John Noonan
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286 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike




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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2008, 01:30:35 PM »

John,

Being a M/C streamliner it will require an SFI-15 minimum, I went and had mine made as a -20, figured better to be safe than cooked... cheesy also if running over 250 it will require two chutes...

Matt do you have a current rule book?  If not someone know and we can get you one or order it from the www.scta-bni.org website, better yet get three of them... wink
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John Romero
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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2008, 01:53:18 PM »

John,

Being a M/C streamliner it will require an SFI-15 minimum, I went and had mine made as a -20, figured better to be safe than cooked... cheesy also if running over 250 it will require two chutes...

Matt do you have a current rule book?  If not someone know and we can get you one or order it from the www.scta-bni.org website, better yet get three of them... wink

Yep, you are right, -15.

One thing rarely heard in the pits was "dang, I could have made this thing smaller, I have way too much extra room in here"
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willieworld
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2008, 02:02:35 PM »

loose lips --sinks ships    willie buchta
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