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Author Topic: Streamline 650cc motorcycle - Superfast One  (Read 33535 times)
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Superfast Matt McCoy
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« on: July 24, 2008, 11:58:30 AM »

About six years ago I fell in love with auto racing.  Iíve always liked cars and motorcycles, especially the fast ones, but it wasnít until I got involved in Formula SAE, an intercollegiate racecar (engineering) competition, that I really got into racing.  Itís easier with someone elseís money. 

A little over a year ago when I joined the world of professional auto racing and realized I hadnít fallen in love with racing in general so much as grassroots racing.  There is no passion left in professional racing. Itís a business, and like any business it is guided by money and politics. Itís not about the cars anymore, and it hasnít been for a long time. Somewhere along the line, Bill France and Bernie Ecclestone and others like them figured out how to make a trailer load of money selling driver personalities and race day drama.

Donít get me wrong, I like my job; I just donít love my job.  So in my effort to find that passion, that borderline obsession that I had in college, I started searching for a hobby.  Where could I find a racing series that would combine my love of grassroots racing with my technical knowledge of engines and aerodynamics?

Land speed racing!  Itís almost too perfect.

LSR is the one exciting arena left in racing where an individual can hammer together a race car and go beat a record. There is no money and there are thousands of different categories people can compete in, anything from a 50cc motorcycle to $50 million worth of jet powered "car".

And so here I am, designing and building a 650cc fuel, turbocharged streamlined motorcycle.  Iíve been to an El Mirage event, talked with some people, got a copy of the rulebook (3 copies, actually.  Itís a long storyÖ).  My design is mostly done, but before I get too far into the manufacturing, I wanted to get a build diary up here.

I wanted to put up a build diary for two main reasons.  One is for people to say ďMatt, you know what might be a good ideaÖĒ 

Two, and this is the main reason, for people to say ďYou know Matt, thatís a really bad idea/against the rulesÖĒ  Even with three copies of the rulebook itís hard to beat the experience of someone who has gone through technical inspection or, even better, someone who is a technical inspector.

And so Iíll be back with more detailed pictures/designs, but for now here are a couple teaser pictures.  Feel free to ask questions like ďWhere does the parachute go?Ē, "What are you using for a front tire?" and "What are you, crazy?"

BTW the project name is ďSuperfast OneĒ, though the bike doesnít have a name yet.

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Glen
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 12:14:05 PM »

Matt, welcome to LSR. As you have seen there are no two alike and that makes our sport more fun. You will get to meet many people and be friends with them for life. There are a couple of people that are all talk and no action and you will find them with little or no trouble. I like your attitude and the build diary, as it gives a lot to look at. You will find most answers here or who to go to for one. AQs there are several LSR streamliner
motorcycles on this web site your interest will become a daily place to visit. You didn't say where you live but sometimes it helps as there are locals that can come and look at the project while it's being built and help with ideas. smiley
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 02:11:16 PM »

Hey welcome and 2 questions:

1.  Could you post bigger images so we could see better what is going on.

2.  Any particular reason you have chosen the 650 class?  If you chose a car class motor you would have the option of sticking some 4 tires/wheels outboard of the body that you would already have made and run as a lakester.  Of course you could use the 650, but at a little cu. in. disadvantage.

When are you starting construction??  Oh yes, where will the parachute go  wink,

Sum
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »

Questions? A few.

Describe the steering geometry. Conventional forks or center hub? Rake & trail?

What tire/wheel combination will you be using?

The rear wheel looks solid. What suspension do you have in mind.

Are you running gas or fuel? Nitrous? On board electric starter or external?

What are you plans for skids?

Turbo and the plumbing need a bunch of room. The exhaust can't point down at the racing surface.

Based on what I can see from your drawing it's too short. You would be surprised how much room all this junk takes. Making it longer only adds a small percentage of weight and makes working on it easer. It allows options for changing to a different engine class down the road.

You give us details, even sketchy ones, and we'll see if we can shoot some holes in it.
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 04:23:57 PM »

sum in order for him to cross over into a car class like a lakester the frame will have to be 1 5/8 instead of 1 1/4
kent
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2008, 04:38:11 PM »

sum in order for him to cross over into a car class like a lakester the frame will have to be 1 5/8 instead of 1 1/4
kent

True, so he had best make it with 1 5/8, the car/bike will only be 3/8ths to 3/4's of an inch wider depending on the cage layout.

Glad you reminded him and me, now back out to the shop, I'm welding more of the dreaded steel on the car so I have something to attach the body to  wink,

Sum
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Superfast Matt McCoy
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 11:31:51 PM »



I'm sure I don't want to build a car, I want to build a motorcycle.  So I'll stick with 1.25"  I chose 650cc because I have a lot of experience with the Honda F4i 600cc engine.  Also, I think I can go as fast as I would want to with that engine.  Construction is already started.  my frame is a bit further along than this:



and will soon look like this:



As for the steering, the trail is 6.4" and the rake is 38 degrees.  It is activated with a complicated looking set of levers and pushrods.  The system is redundant; either side will steer by itself.



The front tire is a used nose landing tire from an F-16, and I am making the wheel with spun steel and aluminum.  Will the technical inspectors need to see stress analysis or calculations on this?  The rear tire will be a Goodyear LSE, and I had a question about that.  The rules say that wheels not specifically made for racing should be reinforced by welding the rim to the center section.  How is this done on an OEM type motorcycle wheel, does anyone have pictures?

The bike has no suspension, it is fully rigid.  Most of the people I talked to recommended suspension, and I chose not to for packaging and simplicity.  I'm still not sure that was a good choice, but it has been chosen.

I'll be running a turbo and methanol, no nitrous, with an on board starter and battery.  I am sure I can package these items; they fit neatly in the CAD model.

I have no skids designed yet.  I also have no parachute placement chosen yet.  Somewhere near the back, I'm thinking...

My current crisis is that I can't find anyone who wants to bend the roll hoops for less than $200.  There are three hoops, 1.25"OD mild steel, all around 160 degrees with a radius of around 7 inches.  If you know anyone, let me know
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John Noonan
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 11:46:50 PM »

Matt,

I have a few comments and welcome to LSR!!

1. I assume your desired top speed is about 230-250mph?

2. Regarding the bending, if spending $ 200.00 is stopping you from furthering along your build then I would rethink your project as the cost in 99% of the cases for beginners is to take your original budget say for instance 10K and then just double it to be safe afro for starters.

3. I hope you are kidding about the chute placement being in the back, where else could it go?

4. Why not use the later model Honda engine besides that you are familar with the older F4, I have worked with American Honda on the 600RR for the Road Race bikes (Miguel, Jake etc) and they are much better engines to start with.

Good luck and again welcome....Oh and please make sure that it will fit a Turbo Busa engine and a 5'10" 180lb rider.. afro ( I am only about 5'9" however Deb says I have a big head )

John
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 12:04:39 AM »

( I am only about 5'9" however Deb says I have a big head )

John you know you are on 5' 7"  grin

Matt - Cool project, looking forward to seeing more. Are you going to do all of your own fab work?

Scott
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 05:24:03 AM »

matt way cool ,I will be looking forward to this build and any comments I can assist you with , You can make your dream machine with a very limited budget ( out of your own pocket) just takes longer than using others ( i know  wink) ,enjoy the journey  :-Dand welcome to the addiction  grin
cheers
gary
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 08:42:50 AM »

Matt, you might want to attend the Bub Meet... there well probably be a half a dozen streamlined motorcycles to look at and people to talk to.  Also check the visit to Thunderdome post in Bonneville General chat.  I put it there because it is the culmination of 20 years of building 8 streamliners, and basically the putting it back together. 
Welcome to LSR, you are right about anyone can do it.   You need a fire system, and room for probably 2 bottles, one will probably need to be 10 lbs.  The tough part of a motorcycle streamliner is you have to comply with a mixture of bike rules and car rules.   It looks like you are heading the right direction, pray for smooth salt, rigid can be a handful. 
Good luck on your build
See ya on the salt  cool
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Stainless
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 11:09:13 AM »

matt--there are three things you have to pay attention to if you build a streamliner  --streamlining--streamlining--and streamlining---it is possible to go very fast with small amounts hp--go back and read all of the posts by BLUE -then read them again --if there is something there you dont understand ---google it--  ---------------willie
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2008, 11:51:08 AM »

Neat renderings!!  More questions, I think you asked for them  wink

Have you actually been able to get in that prone of a position??  My neck won't bent that much, but maybe you are much younger.

Is the motor water cooled?? If so where is the tank for that?  Gas tank location?  Fire bottles like has been mentioned.  I would also suggest adding some length as there will be a lot of things you will need to package.  I can't see where another 12 to 18 inches would hurt your speed and might help with stability (good with no suspension).

On the no suspension I would think you are going to miss running some meets unless the track is perfect.

Chute tube is best at 6 inches by 36.  That is what Bob Stroud wanted me to do and I'm glad I did it as I need that to get the chute he made for me in it.  It could be a little smaller and I've seen them smaller, but before you get too far along I would talk to him or one of the other chute makers.  You wouldn't need as large a chute as I have since you will be a lot lighter.

Are you going to look out under that one loop and out through the nose?

You might be able to find someone to bend the tubes for less than the $200, but I wouldn't think a whole lot less unless Willie??

c ya and don't let our questions haunt you,

Sum
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2008, 12:03:36 PM »

yep ya might as well plan on running the Bub event as it wont be safe or legal for SCTA
kent
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2008, 12:08:18 PM »

Matt, you might want to do a mock up using pvc pipe for the drivers cockpit. Cheap and easly modified, You will also want to see if you can get in it with full gear on. This might make a difference in the final build. It also helps the placement of the rider controls.

The other thing is a good design of the skids(landing gear), Look at several before you do a final design. A small foot print or a small set of wheels causes problems. How they are extended and retracted with positative lock down and up position as well as the strength to support the bike requires some thought.
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Glen
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