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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1619716 times)
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Milwaukee Midget
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Former Bonneville I/GT record holder - 122.539 mph


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« Reply #6885 on: March 08, 2018, 08:17:45 AM »

Saturday it is.  I'll update the spreadsheet tonight.

I have a lot of admiration for my friends in Oz - they're heading out to Gairdner with a car that's not running.  They'll have Stainless and Wayno hanging out - both good tank wrenches - so the deck tilts toward SOS's favor with that.  If they can make it happen, it will be like a Phoenix story.  I wish them that storyline, and I wish them nothing but the best of fortunes.

I - on the other hand - have taken an untested car to the salt before.  I will not do it again.  So desperate to avoid that situation am I, that I will actually go to ILLINOIS on a Saturday to avoid it.  wink
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6886 on: March 08, 2018, 09:35:03 AM »

You guys make me jealous. Here I haven't even had breakfast yet and all I can think about is ale with brown foam and dollar tacos. I hope the meet up goes well.  cheers cheers cheers

Pete
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6887 on: March 08, 2018, 09:37:32 AM »

You guys make me jealous. Here I haven't even had breakfast yet and all I can think about is ale with brown foam and dollar tacos. I hope the meet up goes well.  cheers cheers cheers

Pete
Well, Mark's always said, "You can't say you've been drinking all day if you don't start in the morning!"  wink

 cheers
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6888 on: March 09, 2018, 08:12:33 AM »

MM -- Regarding front end bump and camber behavior.

That the steering rod and lower A-arm may be parallel is not necessarily indicative of satisfactory performance.  Having been down this road before, analyzing this mathematically is not terribly difficult but does depend on having the locations of the various pivot points and axes of rotation identified in space.  While this avenue of investigation is of less importance at the moment in light of the engine work, if, at some convenient time you would like to do some measuring, some bump-steer curves could be generated.
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6889 on: March 09, 2018, 10:04:14 AM »

I appreciate that.

I've been pretty diligent on working on the car itself the last few weeks - the intention is to continue the "divide and conquer" approach.

Not that the record is unclear - it was a little squirrely on the return run - but my thinking is that if I can get the front end optimized with what I have, it should be fine.

All of the front end components were new when installed, save the rack, which I chose because it was from a later model rubber bumper Midget that has a slightly slower turning ratio.  It's solid, so I'm not worried about it.

Moss has a shock valve upgrade which tightens up the lever shock for competition use.  Along with a new radiator and the offset bushings, they should be arriving on Monday.

What I AM thinking is that perhaps I might remove the shocks and possibly relocate the upper arm on the rotating shafts to assure that, when set at my ride height, the piston is operating in its optimal middle range.  Right now, it's not likely that that is the case.

I think the true wildcard in the chassis will be this.  I'm losing probably about 60 lbs in engine weight, and the engine and transmission are being relocated about 3" further aft in the chassis.  That's probably a great deal in a road racing Spridget - maybe not so much for an LSR car that, due to the cage and the battery location, is already likely to be a wee bit trunk heavy.

Won't know the weight distribution until it's all together.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6890 on: March 09, 2018, 11:37:12 AM »

The poor mans fix to stiffen up Armstrong lever shocks way back in the 19th century was to up the oil viscosity. I never raced them, just built engines so I don't know what they put in them but it shouldn't be too hard to work it out.
They would also raise or lower the rack (can't remember which) to line up the inner tie rod joint on the upper to lower pivot line.
  Sid.
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6891 on: March 09, 2018, 12:56:36 PM »

The poor mans fix to stiffen up Armstrong lever shocks way back in the 19th century was to up the oil viscosity.

Heavier oil will milk a pair of leakers out for a couple years.  20 weight is what the factory recommends, but I used to run 50 straight in a worn-out set, and it helped.

19th century?  huh
 
"Queequeg, Ishmael, render the White Wale!  We must supply the colonists with shock absorber oil for the smooth operation of their horseless chariots!"

Actually, whale oil is cheaper than the stuff Moss sells.

 grin

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
forker
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« Reply #6892 on: March 09, 2018, 03:46:25 PM »

but harder to find, these days.
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« Reply #6893 on: March 09, 2018, 03:51:20 PM »

The poor mans fix to stiffen up Armstrong lever shocks way back in the 19th century was to up the oil viscosity.

Heavier oil will milk a pair of leakers out for a couple years.  20 weight is what the factory recommends, but I used to run 50 straight in a worn-out set, and it helped.

19th century?  huh
 
"Queequeg, Ishmael, render the White Wale!  We must supply the colonists with shock absorber oil for the smooth operation of their horseless chariots!"

Actually, whale oil is cheaper than the stuff Moss sells.

 grin


Just seems that long ago, see my age. tongue
  Sid.
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« Reply #6894 on: March 09, 2018, 04:15:49 PM »

Actually, and displaying blissful ignorance again, I imagine that you wouldn't be agonising over use of glorified door-closers instead of something more conventional for damping if class rules didn't restrict.

Must the OE dampers be in use or merely present..?

I'm also good at spending someone else's money, so an upper link that attached to the lever-arm OE damper body at the OE damper location is attractive but presumably also out. In this class.

What about locations and lever lengths, though? If bump steer is genuinely what's going on rather than any other characteristics then equalisation of link length would seem obvious. So that's also out too, in this class.

If all that's true then the modified or adjustable kingpin trunnions must also be beyond the pale; but, they seem not to be that. So, there's a grey area.

Ah, I like those!

There's a fascinating you-tube log of two fellas in Shropshire (OK, in England) building an A-series Mini but with Celica GT4 powertrain and running gear. Yes, that's everything fabricated new except the roof, more or less.

Since there's complete bastardisation of the GT4 McP struts &c into all-new body structure and connived into a space that's half the size of the original Celica, geometry is an opportunity. There's a good illustration of a not-too-hard method to see bump steer, etc. Take a look at 'Project Binky' here; http://www.badobsessionmotorsport.co.uk/project-binky-episode-11/ 

That way, there'll be data.

F
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« Reply #6895 on: March 09, 2018, 05:16:37 PM »

Oh my gosh, that was both funny and informative! I knew I was in for something good when the theme from Police Squad started playing. Great stuff.

John
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #6896 on: March 09, 2018, 06:48:50 PM »

Chris, I just sent you a PM.

Pete
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« Reply #6897 on: March 09, 2018, 10:06:42 PM »


Take a look at 'Project Binky' here; http://www.badobsessionmotorsport.co.uk/project-binky-episode-11/ 

That way, there'll be data.

F

Data . . . .  What's not to like? ?

 Dead Horse  Dead Horse  Dead Horse
F/b
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« Reply #6898 on: March 09, 2018, 10:11:14 PM »

Renaming Suggestion . . . . . .

midget,

In the interest of . . . . . . keeping up interest, whilst my knee recuperates . . . . . .

I'm voting to rename this thread:      PROJECT PI          (Irrational, but well rounded . . . . . . .    wink)

Well, at least for March 14th anyway.


Hey,  Hey,  Hey . . . . .   it's still Friday where I'm at! !

And the bartender has cut me off . . . . cry

 Dead Horse  Dead Horse  Dead Horse
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« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 10:14:39 PM by fordboy628 » Logged

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
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« Reply #6899 on: March 10, 2018, 08:19:26 AM »

Renaming Suggestion . . . . . .

midget,

In the interest of . . . . . . keeping up interest, whilst my knee recuperates . . . . . .

I'm voting to rename this thread:      PROJECT PI          (Irrational, but well rounded . . . . . . .    wink)

Well, at least for March 14th anyway.


Hey,  Hey,  Hey . . . . .   it's still Friday where I'm at! !

And the bartender has cut me off . . . . cry

 Dead Horse  Dead Horse  Dead Horse
Humorco-ordinatorboy

FB, this project has always been transcendental!  shocked grin cheers
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All models are wrong, but some are useful! G.E. Box (1967) www.designdreams.biz
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