solenoids for releases.....any thoughts?

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I would like to simplify getting out of the car by eliminating some of the steps.
Last year we had a cable pull that removes a 1/2" pin that allows the lateral head restraint bar to be pulled off (this worked great and made getting out way easier, with the lateral head restraint in it would be almost (if not entirely) imposable to get out of the car. This year I was going to try and integrate the same cable that releases the lateral head pin to release the door net as well (the current release is located behind and above the helmet on the left side, it is very awkward to release). This cable pull combo idea is not out, but I was considering the idea of using 3 high powered solenoids that would be activated by 1 button that would:
A. pull the lateral head restraint pin
B. drop the door net
C. unlatch the door

All these systems would have a redundant manual override.

Any thoughts on what I am considering, has it been done before or are there any tech issues I may have?
Heres a pic of the solenoid I am considering (the shaft is 5/8" with 1.5" pull):

[Milwaukee Midget]

I'm a practical kind of guy, so I'd ask myself this - "How often am I really climbing in and out of this thing?"   

It would be slick, but might it just be slick for slick's sake?

The overriding problem I see is that if you had an electrical short, you could find yourself vulnerable at speed.  Do you want your net to drop, your head restraint to become loose, and your door to become unlatched at speed?  True, it's not likely to happen, but you open the door for the possibility of all three events occurring simultaneously.

The idea is ingenious, and there is a huge "oooh - ahhh" factor.  It might be appropriate for Le Mans, where you need to change out drivers during a pit stop, but I just don't see where it would make a LSR car go faster.

But that said, if you go ahead and do it, I’d be one of the first ones to say "oooh - ahhh!"

[Stan Back]

I'm with MM.  Don't have anything electrical to turn on or off.  Don't rely on the battery for anything but starting -- and a push will do.

Takes a while to get out -- and if you're traveling along at 100+, it might not be a good isea to get out then, anyway.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I am not arguing with your statements but an electrical failure would result in not opening when the button was pushed and not an accidental opening. Because that some of the systems must be positive lock I was going to include a spring that retained the pins in the closed position until the solenoids are activated.

I guess it is possible that the switch contacts somehow vibrate loose and cause the solenoids to fire……but it would be very unlikely.

However it would be possible that there was a bad connection in one of the leads, pre or post the distribution that would cause one or all of the solenoids to fail.

THis is why I ask the question.
99.9% of the time you could exit the car faster……but that 1% could really mess things up….especially if you had a failure due to rollover or other serious issue.
Its hard to weigh the variables because the common release methods (seat belt hardware for example) can also fail for the same reasons.

[maguromic]

I agree with JH.  I have been upside down and on fire in a road race car and the benefits far out weigh the negatives.  That 1% is what we all fear.  I have also looked at a smiler set up.  Also I have my dash on my steering wheel and I didn't want to get my feet stuck on all the wires that would be dangling down if I had to get out in a hurry.  So I put all my wiring in the steering column and put the male end on my hub.

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  If it can fail...it will fail. And this hold true for BOTH electrical and mechanical devices. KISS is probably the best way to go. However, somebody has to break new ground and lead the way to new ways of doing things. Who knows, could be the way of the future.

Terry

[Ratliff]

How about an escape hatch in the roof like an NHRA Funny Car?

[Glen]

In most cases the driver has his bell rung and that only adds to the confusion of exiting the vehicle. Another is if the vehicle is on it's top it is very difficult to release the safety harness due to the drivers weight hanging in it. Having any safety device must be quickly found and operated by the emergency / rescue people.

There are no easy answers to this and as there are no two cars alike in SCTA this makes it difficult to have everything placed in the same spot on all cars. A lot of thinking must go into any design for these devices and where they are located.

These are just thoughts as I have been on a lot of incindents at Bonneville and El Mirage and we learn from each and everyone. If you are not sure use the SCTA web site for the rules questions section. Towing to any venue is expensive these days and you don't want to get to inspection to find out it's not allowed.

[836dstr]

The thought of having a escape hatch but being upside down started me off on another track.

Being upside down and unconsious in a carburated car with an electric fuel pump running seems to be less that a good idea. I have heard of "tip switches", but do they work to block the fuel line or cut off the electrical side to the pump?

Always looking at making things safer. Again, that 1% possibility.

Sorry for getting off track JHN but I had to ask the question while I was thinking of it.

Tom

[Glen]

The streamliner motorcycles are required to have a tip switch for chute deployment, not the fuel systems. I think I read somewhere that a couple of the cars have a tip over switch to shut down the electrical systems.
You might try a search in the archives.

[836dstr]

Thanks Glen!

I'll look.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

There are no easy answers to this and as there are no two cars alike in SCTA this makes it difficult to have everything placed in the same spot on all cars

In truth I have been coming up with ideas that help my pop (who also drives and is 65) easier for him to get out of the car. By proxy making it easier for him to get out will also make it easier for me to get out.

I have a "X" configuration over the roof, this means escape hatch wont work. I have considered a forward hinged windshield for an emergency escape (RH door is possible but hard).

Last year (our cherry year) I had to have my pop go through a suited routine and count out all the steps to get out. He was way over time and in test would panic and forgetting how to get out.
It is not just that there are multiple steps....but most of them have to be in a certain order.

They went:
1. Seat belt release
2. Pull lateral head pin cable
3. Pull lateral bar
4. Release window net
5. Remove steering wheel
6. Open door

Because of the number of steps and the order they have to be done in I could see that a 1 button system to get rid of 4 steps would outweigh the possibility of a failure of one of the solenoids.
I agree that keeping things simple is paramount, but getting out now if FAR from simple.

Being upside down and unconsious in a carburated car with an electric fuel pump running seems to be less that a good idea. I have heard of "tip switches", but do they work to block the fuel line or cut off the electrical side to the pump?

Always looking at making things safer. Again, that 1% possibility.

Sorry for getting off track JHN but I had to ask the question while I was thinking of it.

Most late model motorcycles have tip switches and I am fairly certain that on the busa motor it will kill the FP (not sure). I however bypassed my tip switch because the vibration of the motor would cause it to kill the motor at high RPM (very common to MC to car conversions). There are even how-2's that tell you how to disassemble the TIP and fill it with putty.

The fact is that a good tip switch could easily be made to work in automotive applications that would shut off the FP and motor (a very good idea). The Rice car crash shows a classic example how a working tip switch would be a good idea. In this video (even though it looks like it ended up upright) the tip switch would of killed the motor as soon as the car went over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siXBXDe2ohU


Glen:

I am going to consult a higher power regarding legality and viability.

[maguromic]

This is the company I use for the tilt switch on my roadster.  I believe the Ack liner uses the same style.  They are very helpful to deal with.

http://www.riekerinc.com/E-Inclinometers/SlopeAlert.htm

[Glen]

Johnie

My main point is when a crash happens the vehicle goes through a lot. Partial collapse of the roof sometimes to the point where a door won't open, have seen this a couple of times. The other is the driver is not going to care about being careful getting out of the vehicle, he just wants out and away. It's a normal reaction. As I stated earlier the driver in almost every case is still wondering what the hell happened by the time we get there. Out response time is about 30 seconds as we have patrols and rovers all along the course. Unless there is a fire they will try to keep the driver in the car until the emergency team is there to assure there are no problems before letting or helping him exit. This will probably be brought up at the drivers meeting.