Defining a 'Motorcycle' or a 'Car'

[MarkV]

Okay, the obvious answer is that a motorcycle has 2 wheels, and anything more than that is a car.  But here's where my logic gets fuzzy.  If you had a single tire with a considerable width, you could count it as 'one'.  Okay, say you cut the tread so that you had a single groove in the middle.  Obviously, the entire tire is still there, but now you have two distinct contact patches on the ground.  I think everyone would still count it as 'one'.  Now say you removed most of the tread and only the outer edges of the tire were touching the ground.  Still 'one', right?  Now split the tire, but allow it to remain on the same axle - Ah-HA, the rubber is no longer continuous across the face of the tire, regardless of where the contact patch is.  Would you still count 'one'?  What if I machined a wide aluminum wheel, but put two belts on it for tires, separated by some distance?  'One' or 'Two?  Bike or car at that point?  Is there some governing definition as to what constitutes a single wheel and determines the count, or is it defined totally different?  Is there a height to width ratio of the tire/wheel that determines it?

Thinking outside the box, that's all.  I can't help it - it's in my genes...

[Glen]

MarkV
Are you hitting the wine a little early today.lol. The MC tech committee will have a ball with this

[willieworld]

yea your thinking is fuzzy if you read the rule book you would see that it says wheels not tires --and a motorcycle can have 2 wheels or three wheels --kiss   willie buchta
 
and the way i read the rules 4 wheels for a car is a mininum so you could run more if you wanted --2 is the maximum for a motorcycle unless you have a sidecar and then you can only have 3 wheels  but there doesnt seem to be a limit on tires just wheels   thanks willie buchta

[RichFox]

So if you want to run an Oliver power roller in Unlimited class, you should be alright

[Glen]

Rich, does the Oliver have speed rated steel drum tires???

[Stainless1]

because it is engine size and body that determine ratings required, would the Oliver be a streamliner?

MarkV, years ago a very famous racer (currently holds the wheel driven record) tried several of the thoughts you are going through, more or less.  Read the defination of an automobile/car in the rule book.  Then read the defination of a motorcycle. 
In this case, get back in the box...   

[Rocky R]

Not to mention a motorcycle by definition, has to run a "motorcycle engine".

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  Hi Mark,

Don't let 'em discourage you from thinking "outside the box" even if your box might have a hole in it in this case. 

After all, your kind of thinking makes everybody else "THINK" just to keep up with you.

Terry A. Hume

[narider]

Here's a hypothetical that no one has addressed. Suppose someone builds a nonairbreathing gas turbine streamliner and also puts a rocket motor in the tail, but only uses the rocket motor to get the car off the line and accelerate it for a few seconds before switching to pure turbine wheel driven propulsion. How would the vehicle be classed?

Ohhh PLEASE come back Jack!
Todd

[Malcolm UK]

A 'motorcycle' could run a powerplant other than those seen in a motorcycle.  You just have to put your case to the FIM.  You (Rocky) saw the first result of this with the Richard Brown Rocket Bike/two wheeler back at BUB in '99.  My money is on a number of turbine 'bikes' in the not too distant future.

If any vehicle has a thrust power plant in it then classification is surely that it is non wheeldriven.  How long it pushes for does not matter.

At least the bikers and car people talk about "wheels", so we do not see skis, blades, tracks, or any other such device.

Malcolm UK

Is Jack D still recovering from coming to England in 07? 

[Ratliff]

A 'motorcycle' could run a powerplant other than those seen in a motorcycle.  You just have to put your case to the FIM.  You (Rocky) saw the first result of this with the Richard Brown Rocket Bike/two wheeler back at BUB in '99.  My money is on a number of turbine 'bikes' in the not too distant future.

If any vehicle has a thrust power plant in it then classification is surely that it is non wheeldriven.  How long it pushes for does not matter.

At least the bikers and car people talk about "wheels", so we do not see skis, blades, tracks, or any other such device.

Malcolm UK

Is Jack D still recovering from coming to England in 07? 

Here's some food for thought. A four inch diameter tireless wheel would be turning 80,000 rpm at 900 mph. If that sounds outlandish, turbocharger rotors are turning that same rpm right now.

[tortoise]

Not to mention a motorcycle by definition, has to run a "motorcycle engine".

I can't find anything in the AMA rulebook that restricts special construction (not streamliner) bikes from running other than motorcycle sourced engines. Can you?

[Ratliff]

Okay, the obvious answer is that a motorcycle has 2 wheels, and anything more than that is a car.  But here's where my logic gets fuzzy.  If you had a single tire with a considerable width, you could count it as 'one'.  Okay, say you cut the tread so that you had a single groove in the middle.  Obviously, the entire tire is still there, but now you have two distinct contact patches on the ground.  I think everyone would still count it as 'one'.  Now say you removed most of the tread and only the outer edges of the tire were touching the ground.  Still 'one', right?  Now split the tire, but allow it to remain on the same axle - Ah-HA, the rubber is no longer continuous across the face of the tire, regardless of where the contact patch is.  Would you still count 'one'?  What if I machined a wide aluminum wheel, but put two belts on it for tires, separated by some distance?  'One' or 'Two?  Bike or car at that point?  Is there some governing definition as to what constitutes a single wheel and determines the count, or is it defined totally different?  Is there a height to width ratio of the tire/wheel that determines it?

Thinking outside the box, that's all.  I can't help it - it's in my genes...

How about if a motorcycle has three wheels but they're all still aligned? For example, a second rear wheel right behind the first one?

[Peter Jack]

Rat:

With all your ideas why don't you build and ride / drive just one of them if you can get it through tech. I think you'll have to run it yourself because I don't think you'll find a volunteer foolish enough to operate it for you.

Pete

[Glen]

He only runs his mouth