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Author Topic: CC VW Karmann Ghia  (Read 16423 times)
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Ray-Dean
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« on: April 23, 2008, 10:23:29 PM »

I guess that it's time I started a little something about my project here. Being a hard core VW guy, I have chosen to build a Comp. Coupe out of a '71 VW Ghia. For those Stud fellas out there, you'll be happy to know that the VW Ghia was originally designed as a sports coupe for Studebaker, but got bought by VW instead. So the body lines have a lot in common.

I didn't really know what to expect as for the aero specs on the car though. So after a lot of digging, I came up with some numbers. These are for a '67 'vert, but the body style didn't change from '67-'71 and the 'vert has the same windshield so the fromntal area is the same. The 'vertfrontal did weigh more though due to the frame reinforcements.

Vehicle Data 

Vehicle laden weight   2299.9 lbs - 1043.5 kg
Wheelbase   96in
Weight distribution Front    20.8% Rear - 79.17%
C. G. Height   16in
Friction coefficient    1.9
Frontal area    26 sq ft
Drag coefficient   0.4
Lift coefficient    0.0
 

I will be removing the stock running gear. New power will come from a front mounted engine (displacement TBD). This will move the weight forward and hopefully make the car more stable a speeds. I'll also be chopping the roof to the limit, stretching the front end by 36" to accommodate the new engine bay, and streamlining the nose as well. With any luck, I can improve on the factory #'s.


That's all for now.
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Sumner
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 10:30:30 PM »

.......Frontal area    26 sq ft.................

I can't believe that they have that much frontal area.  I never knew about the near stude connection either.  Good luck with the project,

Sum
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 10:36:52 PM »

I was looking at that too. If a '53 Stude is really 21 and .38, the Ghia has to be less than 26. I have all the factory measurements, but they are in German and metric measurements. It may have to do with the fact that they are close to a 9" off the ground from the factory.

But they are smaller that a Stude. That much I know.
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 11:27:00 PM »

Rough figures, or maybe it's just my bad math...


Factory specs. for '71-'74 body are:

width:  1634mm = 64.33" = 5.36' (ronded)
height: 1320mm = 51.97" = 4.33' ( "     " )

So, by doing a bit of rough math with my rough figures, I get 23.21 for the frontal area, but that is not really right as the car is not a perfect square.
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 08:29:12 AM »

This is an image of a factory Karmann Ghia, and the purposed front stretch:




And this is the chop that will make a 5" windshield height:




Do you all see anything aerodynamically "bad" in the plans for this car before I start cutting.
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Sumner
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 09:22:24 AM »

My thoughts are that the factory should have stretched the nose.  It sures looks much better to me.  Aero wise I'd get rid of the nose in comp coupe and build the most aero one you could unless you wanted to retain the stock look like Hooley wanted to with the Stude.  To me it doesn't look like the stretch is a full 36 inches in the photo?

The transition off the roof into the trunk area (I guess it wasn't a trunk on that car) is really nice.  I would put the largest spill plates the rules would allow and they should work well with the shape of the rear fenders.

What engine size/class/type to you have in mind.

Get busy,

Sum
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 09:37:06 AM »

I have an old article of a Ghia from the early 80's call "Salt Shaker" that used an Opal front clip. made the front aero a lot better. Might take that route, or take a really big pie cut out of the front to slope the fenders more. Not sure on that yet.

I have a question about the spill plates. I know they can be no further forward than the center line of the rear axle, and can only extend so far past the rear of the body, but is there an "over all" length spec? I don't remember seeing one, or I must have misread it.


Engine is planned to be a four valve Ford Cobra 4.6 and T-5 tranny to a narrowed 9" rear end.
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Sumner
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 09:47:35 AM »

................is there an "over all" length spec? I don't remember seeing one.............

No, just how high above and below the spoiler and past it.  How about a front end from scratch.  Something similar to what Blowfish runs ...................



.........................would not be real hard to make and I feel it is about as good as it gets for these cars as it helps send some of the air at the front of the car down the sides.

Another picture of the car from the back........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/282-2006.html

c ya,

Sum
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 10:03:06 AM »

Thanks for the clarification on the spill plates.


The nose of a Ghia would look a lot like that if you removed the head lights and reshaped the outer fender area.....




This is beginning to look (dare I say it) easier with every post.
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Stan Back
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 10:39:30 AM »

I believe the Karmann-Ghia VW was a scaled-down copy of a car Ghia built for Chrysler in the 50's.  Can't remember its name, but they look very similar except for size.

Stan
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 11:04:06 AM »

Quote
I have chosen to build a Comp. Coupe out of a '71 VW Ghia

I would think the Ghia would be considered a Sports car.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Karmann_Ghia

Quote
The Karmann Ghia, VW's venture into the sports car market, was created in 1956. While it had limited power for a sports car, its stylish looks and reasonable price made sales strong.

-JH
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 11:16:39 AM »

Also the rear engine will put a lot of weight aft....even behind the rear axle (worse). This means that you will have to have a higher propionate counter weight forward if you plan on going straight on the salt. Not a big deal to do but something to consider.

I recommend, while just an opinion, that if you do the build stretch the car to the max of the class limits (or more than your proposed lines). In your photo (does look great) is only visually 10-12, not really much in the scope of things considering that it is the same amount of work to stretch it 1 as it does 3. And 3+ will make a world of difference in handling.
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jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2008, 11:19:56 AM »

Thanks for the clarification on the spill plates.


The nose of a Ghia would look a lot like that if you removed the head lights and reshaped the outer fender area.....




This is beginning to look (dare I say it) easier with every post.

yep, extend the front in front of the wheel wells just enough so that the nose could round off after the removal of the headlights from the front to the sides in front of the front tires/wheels, which could be pulled in.  It could be a pretty rounded shape,

Sum
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Ray-Dean
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2008, 11:36:20 AM »

The reason for extending the front end is to mount a V8 engine and trans in the front. The image above of the extension is about 12", and I'm shooting for 36" of extension.

As for the body, it is built and titled as a sedan according to VW, so that is why I chose CC for the class.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 11:38:01 AM by Ray-Dean » Logged
Unkl Ian
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2008, 09:05:20 PM »

I would think the Ghia would be considered a Sports car.

Since they were produced with 4 seats,a VW Ghia should be legal for /CC.

Several Ghias have run in /ALT and /GC,and the eligibility
requirements are the same for /CC.


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