Aluminum Body..........

[Sumner]

I'm starting to look at the option of using aluminum for most of my lakester body instead of fiberglass.  There will be a lot of gentle compound curves and some areas that need more forming.  I'm looking at 3003-H14 aluminum.  I can get it in .050 and .063 and don't know which would be better for my use.  I guess the .063 would be easier to weld and the .050 easier to form.  Maybe some of both and use the heavier for the flatter areas and the .050 for the areas that need to be worked more??  Would I be creating a problem when joining, welding the two different thicknesses in places where they met??

Any thoughts or suggestions or who to call would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sum

[willieworld]

sum i weld lots of metal together and as you know where you weld it shrinks if you hammer the weld you can stretch it back out and make it flat again that is much much easier to do when the 2 pieces are the same thickness --aluminum will work harden when you work it too much-- just fire up your torches with acetyline cover the aluminum with soot turn up the oxygen burn off the soot and the aluminum will be soft again (annealed)--3003 has good forming characteristics --the 3003 does come in O (annealed) --do you have any sheetmetal equipment       willie  buchta

[panic]

That sounds awfully thick!
Weren't the original sports car bodies more like .030"?
Not for weight saving, but a few hundred less hours forming?

[Dean Los Angeles]

The .050 is not that easy to form, and the .063 is gonna be tough. Welding it is not that tough . . . if you have the knack.

The Knack

3003 .050 is .778 lbs per sq ft., .063 .923 lbs per sq ft.

Something against fiberglass or carbon?

[willieworld]

sum 032 is very flimsy if you drop a wrench on it it will dent forget that--040 will weld pretty easy if you have the knack--065 is way to thick and heavy --my choice would be 050 it is pretty easy to weld it forms pretty easy and its thick enough that if you are going to leave it bare aluminum you will have enough thickness for grinding and sanding --if you are going to paint 050 would still be my choice--its strange but im getting ready to build a body for a customers lsr rig (SECRET) and iv been going over this same thing in my head for about a week and decided on 050 --the differance in weight between 040 and 050 in a 4x8 sheet is about 15 lbs   just some thoughts   willie buchta 

    p s  the material will usually be a couple of thousnds thinner than advertised anyway 

[Sumner]

sum 032 is very flimsy if you drop a wrench on it it will dent forget that--040 will weld pretty easy if you have the knack--065 is way to thick and heavy --my choice would be 050 it is pretty easy to weld it forms pretty easy and its thick enough that if you are going to leave it bare aluminum you will have enough thickness for grinding and sanding --if you are going to paint 050 would still be my choice--its strange but im getting ready to build a body for a customers lsr rig (SECRET) and iv been going over this same thing in my head for about a week and decided on 050 --the difference in weight between 040 and 050 in a 4x8 sheet is about 15 lbs   just some thoughts   willie buchta 

    p s  the material will usually be a couple of thousands thinner than advertised anyway 

Thanks I think if I try this I'll go with the .050.  I want the 3003 since it is easy to re-anneal like you mentioned.  The Ron Fournier book I have went over this process and he seems to use the .050 on a lot of his stuff.  I just got an English wheel and planishing hammer, but it will be learn as I go, which is pretty usual for me.  I'm getting good enough with the tig that I feel I can weld this stuff.  I was going glass, but would have to wait for warm weather to go that route and with the aluminum I could start soon.  If it doesn't seem to be working then I'll have some aluminum for sale  and will fall back to the fiberglass.

I recently got some .090 5052 in Phoenix that I used for my water tanks.  I called them a little while ago and got a price quote of $100 per 4 X 10 sheet of .050 3003-H14.  How does that price compare to what you have been paying.  I guess if I go this route it will be another trip to Phoenix and Sparky will have to put up with me for a day or so again  .

I'll look forward to seeing your "secret" project when it becomes "declassified",

Sum

[willieworld]

in my area they sell aluminum by the pound so it goes up and down a couple of weeks ago i paid 56 plus tax for a 4x8 sheet of 040  not too bad   just buy one sheet if you can  i know you are pretty far from the supplier  that makes it harder   are you going to the banquet on the 26th     willie  buchta

[RidgeRunner]

     Last November I was quoted aprox $103 for a 4x8 sheet of .063 3003 H-14 by a suplier here in Western MA, non stock item, usually about 2-3 day availability on special order.  Price was based per pound at that time with the understanding that it could be higher or lower when we are ready to order [hopefully before spring].

     This thread came at a good time for us, I had been leaning toward the .063, now will be rethinking on using the .050........

     Thank you Sum for bringing it up and everyone else for your input.

                       Ed Purinton

[wolcottjl]

Using a tip from my uncle, I have found one of the local large metal suppliers will sell cutoffs at scrap pricing.  They have large customers that need cut pieces for projects -the rest go into the scrap pile.  They let me pick through their pile every now and then.   I was lucky enough to find 2 - 4x8 sheets with one of the corners bent over on one, and the other scratched up pretty bad on one side.  Picked up both at scrap price.  It is worth a call around to ask.

[SPARKY]

PUT UP WITH___NOTHING---we enjoy you bring SHUSH down for a visit

[Sumner]

in my area they sell aluminum by the pound so it goes up and down a couple of weeks ago i paid 56 plus tax for a 4x8 sheet of 040  not too bad   just buy one sheet if you can  i know you are pretty far from the supplier  that makes it harder   are you going to the banquet on the 26th     willie  buchta

Looks like I'll probably need at least six 4X10 sheets, so I would probably get 7-8.  The car is about 22 feet long and it is aways around it.  Driving 800 miles round trip to get them means I don't want to be short.  Besides I have another project for the future I could use the rest for.  I can get hot rolled strap, square tubing, rectangular tubing locally for less than I've found it anywhere else in the area.  I have a feeling the welding shop is selling it to me at maybe cost plus 10%.  Anything that is special order like cold rolled sheets and this aluminum is expensive here.  The freight charges into here are really high and unpredictable.  Hopefully my pickup has another 1000 miles left in it.  I almost have all the parts for the new motor for it.  Waiting on the JE pistons (....John Noonan  ) and the machinist to quit racing in AZ and the AFR heads.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I appreciate it,

Sum

[Sumner]

Well I took the plunge and ordered 8 sheets of aluminum today.  GH (Gary Hart) gave me the number to Metals USA outside of Kansas City, MO today (thanks Gary) and they had good pricing.  $77 per sheet for 4 X 10 .050 3003-H14 and that included putting it on a pallet.  The only problem was they only ship inside of Missouri.  I then found freightcenter.com on the internet and got a price of $205 to get it from Missouri to SE Utah.  We will see how this works as I've been burnt by freight companies before.

If anyone is interested:

Metals USA call 800-635-6061 and ask for Richard

Frieght Center call 800-716-7608 and ask for Roger ext. 1011

Both of these guys were really helpful.

c ya,

Sum

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Here's another shipping company that might be worth a try for you -- or for anyone, for that matter:  www.uship.com  It's sort of like an eBay for shipping.  You list what you've got, where it is and where you want it to go, and various people/companies will offer prices and terms for the shipment.  I've used them to ship a race bike, another guy I know got his drill press and milling machine moved by them, etc.  Prices quoted for my bike move ranged from $250-700 -- and so I called a couple of the "bidders" and decided which to give the job to.  All worked out okay, the stuff was on time, and no problems reported.

[Rex Schimmer]

Sum,
I guess that I'll just be opposite here as I would not use  the.050 I would go with the .063. It is MUCH easier to weld and as for forming the stuff is so soft that you can make it go almost any where! and if you are doing any kind of forming that requires some stretching you have more material with the .063, and remember planishing and wheeling are forming methods that stretch the metal so each of them will make the material thinner. The .050 is just to flimsey, any panel that doesn't have some crown or shape to it will be real hard to keep flat without a bead or bend put in it and then when you go to weld it, it will be to thin and a real pain in the Acura to weld. I don't think that the weight is a consideration but the cost will go up around 8%. Buying extra is a great idea as you will certainly use it and you will also have things like airboxes and bulk heads that you will need to fab, and bulk heads/firewalls are required to be .060.

You might also think about learning to gas weld aluminum. It is easier with the special blue welding goggles but it is not real hard and it will make a weld that is very easy to planish and make flat and it has a minmum weld build up so you have less to file off. Also you probably want to get 1100 welding rod as it is easier to file off. Make sure that you have several good vixon files ( we always called them "hungry" files, as if they bit you it was bloody!) as these are what are best to knock the weld down. Like wise on TIG welds that you can get to the back of you should back weld to make the weld strong, do this before you file the bead and planish.

Have fun. I am also planning to do my body out of aluminum and I figure by the time I'm done I will have learned alot about it and I am sure you will too!!

Rex

[John Burk]

Sum

Design the body so as many panels as possible are flat or curved in one direction . Curved panels are less likely to flutter . Use spacers on the dzus springs where needed so all your buttons are the same length .

On mine where possible where panels meet I riveted 1/8 x 2 backup strips on the leading edge , fastened to the car  with flathead screws and with dzus springs for the panel ahead of it . Fewer exposed fasteners and the wind can't get under the leading edge .

John