Landracing Forum Home
October 22, 2017, 09:40:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Water against detonation with Nitrous  (Read 28811 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
2fast4u2c
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 263



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2008, 12:44:38 PM »

it also does wonderfull things for ya Guy... hey were ya been..... and why didnt ya come down last time you were out.... ya butthead... grin.
kent

John tried to get me out there, but my plane flight was too close for comfort.  I just knew I would get delayed and miss my flight if I came down there from LA.  But...You haven't called, no flowers, no dancing girls, no letters or cards, I'm hurt.

When you get a few minutes to spare, give me a call if you can. 

Guy
Logged

300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
 Tiger Racing
1212FBGS
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Vista, Ca
Posts: 2532


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2008, 01:05:22 PM »

Ok apology accepted....We dont let the dancin girls get to far away from the shop.....I still love ya man.....
Kent
Logged
oz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 53
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 587


Geordie Power.




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2008, 05:05:44 AM »

hey Kent did you get PM with Morini details?
Logged

Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
HotRudyRod
New folks

Offline Offline

Posts: 4




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2008, 11:30:35 PM »

Well getting back to the original topic, water or alki injection does make wonders for detonation suppresion, cooling and octane boosting on forced induction engines. Now water/alki and nitrous hasnt been as widely researched and the people that have arent talking about it, i've talked to Rodney from Alcohol Injections Systems about it and this is part of what he answered me:
"Hi Rudy,
First of all let me say, running water methanol injection with nitrous is perfectly fine. We actually sell many systems to strictly nitrous users as it offers the benefit of increased octane while stabilizing the combustion process.  This allows users to then run much less ignition retard while adding some extra safety to the motor at the same time."
The cons i see with running this kind of set up in N/A nitroused engine & water/alki injection would be tunning as it would run very rich since these systems are normally setted up for boost not nitrous and would need extensive tunning and scanning logging tools to get the proper A/F ratio when on the gas.
Try checking out all the alcohol/water injection at the following link:   http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Tech-Articles/t7/articles.html

Rudy.
Logged
oz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 53
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 587


Geordie Power.




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2008, 03:03:06 AM »

Nice one thanks
Logged

Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
uglydog56
New folks

Offline Offline

Posts: 10




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2008, 10:54:45 PM »

We tried on my brother's 55 drag car.  400 sbc with a baby blower and a cheater plate.  It ran about .5 faster on the water/meth.  It ran about 1.2 faster on the 150 shot, no water/meth.  Next we tried both, it went slower on both than it did with neither.  So we put in the 250 jets to do some "real intercooling" and got her in the 10's.  Our theory was the cold temps of the nitrous don't let the methanol give up it's latent heat of vaporization, and we were drowning out the motor.  Maybe we should have dialed back the water after reading the previous posts.
Logged
NathanStewart
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1166





Ignore
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2009, 05:41:35 PM »

Sorry to dig up such an old post but FYI water alone works great with nitrous injection.  I don't consider something that delivers more power to be a band aid by any means.  While methanol as twice the level of latent heat as gasoline, water has four time the latent heat of methanol.  That means cooler combustion temps during those long hard nitrous assisted pulls between the four and the five mile.  Cooler combustion temps mean you can run more timing and more nitrous to make more power.  Sound good to me.  afro
Logged

El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member
2fast4u2c
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 263



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2009, 05:31:03 AM »

And here all this time I thought I was supposed to inhale before going down the track.  The nitrous goes in the motor?
Logged

300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
 Tiger Racing
oz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 53
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 587


Geordie Power.




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2009, 01:03:34 PM »

Its Acually strange this topic should crop up again i was thinking about it the other day,The ideaI had goes something like this a three branch fogger jet with room for three jets,A container that can be filled with the water and sealed,A balloon of some description maybe one used in a nitrogen gas shock or piston on top or in the water,and a branch of the N2O after the solenoid to Inflate Ballon or push piston ,Fire the Nitrous the water is pushed into the jet at high pressure and can be regulated at the jet without the need for another pump.I aint got time to do it for this year but i do think that if I had more time and room on the bike it is certainly going to be a big help!
I suppose I better blow the dust of my CAD programes and get crackin eh!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 01:06:09 PM by oz » Logged

Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
Blue
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 56
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 412


Don't guess, TEST!




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2009, 05:18:29 PM »

In spite of the fact that I believe water is a band-aid, I actually favor it for nitrous engines.  When we boost an engine, we are bringing in atmosphere with the extra oxygen.  So when we combust the extra fuel and oxygen vs. normally aspirated we have more working gas (nitrogen) to absorb the heat.

Not so with Nitrous.  If we add nitrous and the correct amount of fuel we are adding MUCH more heat than working gas to absorb it.  In this case, I would advocate adding water injection specifically to increase the percentage of working gas, and increase cylinder pressure and power for a given amount of heat.

I explained this in more detail on the Ricardo thread, please read it there I can't bring myself to do a cut-and-paste!
Logged

"Doing the same thing as everyone else insures the same result", Shawn Fischer
"Extraordinary ideas do not come from ordinary thinking", Dan Bond
"Don't compromise, optimize", Eric Ahlstrom
rodknox
New folks

Offline Offline

Posts: 1




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2009, 11:59:00 AM »

Sorry to dig up such an old post but FYI water alone works great with nitrous injection.  I don't consider something that delivers more power to be a band aid by any means.  While methanol as twice the level of latent heat as gasoline, water has four time the latent heat of methanol.  That means cooler combustion temps during those long hard nitrous assisted pulls between the four and the five mile.  Cooler combustion temps mean you can run more timing and more nitrous to make more power.  Sound good to me.  afro

Can you explain in simple terms what "latent heat" means?
Logged
jl222
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Clovis calif.
Posts: 2523




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 02:58:17 PM »

Sorry to dig up such an old post but FYI water alone works great with nitrous injection.  I don't consider something that delivers more power to be a band aid by any means.  While methanol as twice the level of latent heat as gasoline, water has four time the latent heat of methanol.  That means cooler combustion temps during those long hard nitrous assisted pulls between the four and the five mile.  Cooler combustion temps mean you can run more timing and more nitrous to make more power.  Sound good to me.  afro

Can you explain in simple terms what "latent heat" means?

  Rodknox

  Latent heat in simple terms means how much heat a liquid requires to change to a gas, for example water evaporating in hot supercharged air will lower the temperture due to its latent heat of evaporation. Thats why supercharged engines using methanol don't need intercoolers because of the greater latent heat of evaporation compared to gasoline.

   JL222
Logged
oz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 53
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 587


Geordie Power.




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2009, 02:32:00 PM »

ah on the subject of supercharging,?I am supercharging the wifes Jawa it is running or should i say will be running methanol with 20% nitro, it is currently running 15-1 which will be too high i imagine what is optimum ratio any idea?
cheers oz
Logged

Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
NathanStewart
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1166





Ignore
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2009, 01:13:18 AM »

I have to apologize in advance but I don't know which ratio you're referring to.  AFR?  Compression ratio?  Ratio of 2 stroke oil to gas?  Ratio of old guys to young guys at an SCTA event?  Mind clarifying? 
Logged

El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member
oz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 53
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 587


Geordie Power.




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2009, 03:53:48 AM »

Compression ratio of 15-1
Ooops
and its a four stroke motor!
Logged

Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page June 30, 2017, 07:07:20 AM