Author Topic: New Land speed challenger announced  (Read 32451 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2955
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #45 on: December 25, 2007, 11:59:51 PM »

   Racergeo

    I know of two streamliners being planned,''one started'' both with wings. Hope to see these guys at newyears party and find out if they want me to post more.Also take fotos.
    Now if they would vary the angle of atack as they shifted,''like that lakester up near Carson city''.

           JL222

Offline racergeo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 824
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2007, 01:04:22 AM »
   Very interesting jl222. And that brings me to my last post (possibly) on this subject!   SUMNER, pretty please use one of your spread sheets and cleverly put your normal value of CD to each tire on Joe Laws lakester. Rears look to be 30inchers. then back that amount out of what his drag would be and figure his RW HPat about 1200.  (dual turbo BBC with elec. FI and computer engine management, easy 1200hp)  Now imagine his car has some little aluminum wheels tucked inside the body in front and his rear tires are inside his body and he has change his rear gear for a little more speed and VOILA a steamliner with a wing. Now no cheating, how fast? and that is aC/BGS!!! To add to the confusion any wing I add would be to the front. What say you Jack? WHat would Noel Black have done?

Offline Sumner

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4078
  • Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere
    • http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2007, 10:47:09 AM »
   Very interesting jl222. And that brings me to my last post (possibly) on this subject!   SUMNER, pretty please use one of your spread sheets and cleverly put your normal value of CD to each tire on Joe Laws lakester. Rears look to be 30inchers. then back that amount out of what his drag would be and figure his RW HPat about 1200.  (dual turbo BBC with elec. FI and computer engine management, easy 1200hp)  Now imagine his car has some little aluminum wheels tucked inside the body in front and his rear tires are inside his body and he has change his rear gear for a little more speed and VOILA a steamliner with a wing. Now no cheating, how fast? and that is aC/BGS!!! To add to the confusion any wing I add would be to the front. What say you Jack? WHat would Noel Black have done?

Too many varibles there that I would be guessing at, but I can tell you............



.............. that in 2006 with the car almost in the configuration you are talking about they set the current A/BGS record at  286.262.  I see that after setting the record they made a down run of 356.984 mph, but no runs after that, so maybe they hurt the motor/car on that run. 

Their C/BFL record is 349.873, but I don't know what the speeds were for the two runs to set the record.  Note that the '06 record and 357 mph run was an A motor on gas and the lakester record is a C motor on fuel.

They probably couldn't get the rear wheels/tires inside of that body so a bubble would have to go out to enclose them resulting in more frontal area than there is now, but granted better Cd.  The question would be how much of a gain would they see that far back on the car as the air might be pretty separated by that point.  The gain would probably come from not a bubble over the tires, but a new body that is wider further forward that would then transition past the tires and close in behind them.  That would result in a really long car then with other aero problems.  The car is a great car, but I think it has probably reached it limits as far as streamlining is concerned.  There are a couple more pictures here:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-2/355-2006.html

If you are designing a car from scratch why do you want to design it with a front wing?  Seems Burkland and Teague have gone pretty fast with no front wing and someone already mentioned the results of Al experimenting with a rear wing.  If you have an existing car and it is experiencing problems then maybe a wing might be a possible solution for the problems, but why have more frontal area than you need if it can be avoided.

c ya,

Sum

Offline jackson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2007, 12:31:16 PM »
Joe quit after the down run because he was failing rubber bands......(tires).  He made that last pass with a tire that failed long before his exit!  He knew it, but it was still going straight so he stayed in it!  A lot was learned from his putting theory in to practice though.

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2007, 10:46:51 PM »
In the days  of the multi, multi ply tires like the Indy skins and the old LSR stuff, turn around maintenance consisted of trimming the string ends from the broken cords .
Tire spin has been the limiting factor for most and some relief has come with the 4WD, but they have had their share of failures also.
The race is still to the tires, and until another track is developed, not much is going to change.
What bothers me most about canards is their reaction to a cross wind where one side is loaded dramatically more than you would experience with just a slippery shape and suitable down force from on board ballast.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Hoffman Jr

  • New folks
  • Posts: 16
    • www.hoffmanmetal.com
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2015, 01:32:27 PM »
Just saw this post.

We did not lose any speed with our rear wings as they were retractable. We only tested them the last year we ran using alky. The wings were for use with nitro as we had a traction problem up to about 320mph.
I believe they would work well for some traction up to the mid 2 mile and could also be used to slow the car down on shutdown.

Harry Hoffman Jr


 Why not a wing on a steamliner.

Which is more aerodynamic - a crate of beer (bottle) or a block of bricks with the same outside dimension.
The crate of beer has less cross section with the space between the bottles.....but extremely bad aerodynamic so the bricks are much better.

A lakester is the nightmare for everything called airflow....clean airflow.

When a lakester use a wing, the different of interrupt or destroyed airflow will be so small, that the increase of downforce from the wing is a big plus for going fast - a wing produce downforce with this that he break the airflow.

A streamliner is living from the airflow.....you push so much hp in.....and you still go slow....if the aerodynamic on a streamliner is bad and the airflow is interrupt.

Best example - Hoffman Markley streamliner, they add small wings on - 8 inches on both sides and slowed down by more than 20 mph.

2002 - August - Al Teague used a wing and slowed down by more the 20 mph, his last run at Speedweek was without the wing and he went again over 400....if there was not the late Nolan White he would be fastest of the meet.

The only chance to improve downforce by a kind of wing, without disturbing the airflow are small carnads, may be up to 2 1/2 inch wide when they are right designed - no road track profil - high speed profile which start to work at speed higher than 160 mph.....but this as the last solution if there is no other way to improve the performance.


« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 12:22:35 PM by Hoffman Jr »
Harry Hoffman Jr

Offline dw230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3165
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2015, 02:18:31 PM »
Almost 8 years later and no more info from the OP quoting of the dreamer.

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5875
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2015, 05:29:58 PM »
Boy that was fun.

Sure miss Jack D.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Sumner

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4078
  • Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere
    • http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2015, 12:35:32 AM »
......If you are designing a car from scratch why do you want to design it with a front wing?  Seems Burkland and Teague have gone pretty fast with no front wing and someone already mentioned the results of Al experimenting with a rear wing.  If you have an existing car and it is experiencing problems then maybe a wing might be a possible solution for the problems, but why have more frontal area than you need if it can be avoided.

c ya,

Sum

The above was part of what I said back there in 2007 during this thread.  I'd probably contradict myself now and say I can see reasons for front wings in some cases and I am even considering one if I ever finish the lakester  :cry: :cry:

Sum
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 10:40:23 AM by Sumner »

Offline DRW

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2015, 01:31:35 AM »
Sorry to all to chime in, But do all you guys who post ever realize how fun it is to read all the comments from you guys that really know what there talking about ?
2 years ago after my first time at Bonneville, I was all giddy and wrote in, It was taken the wrong way and man did I get drilled by all of you guys, So much I said 'Good bye to all of you, You missed the point on how much I love Bonneville im done"  But thankfully a guy named Old Scrambler was cool enough to email me on the side and say, Dont take all this to heart, Just kinda read and listen to what all these guys are sayin !
Well I did, And I just want to say, I feel bad for other forms of racing that done get to read all the banter from the Vets of the sport . I learn more in a four page drill of this challenger to the sport than I could learn i ten years of magazine articles,, Do you guys know what I mean,, Its like taking all the guys that really know the sport,Have them in a conference room, And you get to listen in an learn, And most of it has a lot of good humor with it !  Sure beats reading the newspaper, Thanks All !         
Doesnt Mean That Much To me, To Mean That Much To You !

Offline kiwi belly tank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3129
Re: New Land speed challenger announced
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2015, 06:03:41 AM »
You need a thick skin here at times  :-D but this build what you want LSR stuff can create some stories. Hang in there! :mrgreen:
  Sid.