Landracing Forum Home
November 21, 2017, 05:05:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: firewall forward frame design  (Read 10247 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jonny Hotnuts
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1522





Ignore
« on: October 20, 2007, 07:55:52 PM »


http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/500/medium/lowered_with_nose.jpg?292


Any changes I should make???
Is this overkill???
I did not display bars across the top connecting the left and right sides together but I will have something there (I wont know how they will be going in until I see how all the stuff up front will sit).

I will start cutting next weekend.


BTW:
They are 14" tires.
Logged

jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 66
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6456


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 09:19:04 PM »

JNuts,
I thought I read one of Dan W's posts that said there would be a minimum wheel track width, ya might consider knowing what that is before building....
BTW looks stout, nice design, are the tires too wide?  or the pic not all to scale... 
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
JackD
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 71
Location: The great race track in the heavens above
Posts: 4684




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 06:36:09 AM »

Ain't puters grand ?
1. The box section material would be stronger if turned upright.
2. The round tubes that act as a truss are in compression if you hit a bump, and are best if in tension.
3. I would suggest you stay close to the rule changes that might rain on your parade before committing to a design.
 The board approved car information will be published here and long before the rulebook is in print.
 4. Work on getting ready to be ready, but not to start over.
Logged

"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"
dwarner
Guest

« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 08:12:55 AM »

Discussions at El Mirage yesterday centered around front tread being no narrower than 6" less than OEM.
Personally, I would turn off the blue tip wrench until the rules are finalized.

DW
Logged
Jonny Hotnuts
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1522





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 11:10:33 AM »

Does anyone know about or when they will be finalized???
I have a ton to do on the car before next year and this is the first step.



Quote
front tread being no narrower than 6" less than OEM

I am going to assume that this will apply to ALL modified classes. I would hate to see only mod sports being singled out and other modified classes allowed to run a narrow track.

To me this sounds like a good basis for an arguement.

Wink

-JH
Logged

jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)
dwarner
Guest

« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 11:16:28 AM »

How narrow? What argument?

DW
Logged
1212FBGS
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Vista, Ca
Posts: 2532


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 11:32:56 AM »

we will probably have a good idea of rules that will be changed at the next board meating (couple of weeks) and by the nov meating the correct wording for print in the rule book may be drawn up and i think we will know for sure by dec....dan will have a good idea.... pm him a few days after each board meating...
kent
Logged
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 66
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6456


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 11:41:48 AM »

we will probably have a good idea of rules that will be changed at the next board meating
kent

Kent, if I knew you better I would accuse you of intentional mis-spelling...  Who is the board intending to meat next....

I love this job....
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Unkl Ian
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 145




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 12:29:25 PM »

Jonny:Are you building a full tube chassis,from end to end ?

Or planning on attaching a tube frame front clip to the stock unibody ?

First choice would be a complete tube chassis.In which case,you can start
building everything from the firewall back,while waiting on next years rules.

There have been a few posts here suggesting a minimum tread width rule is coming.

Logged

I guess the answer is "a Secret" .
Jonny Hotnuts
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1522





Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 11:22:49 PM »

Quote
Or planning on attaching a tube frame front clip to the stock unibody ?

The Fiat has an odd "uni body with frame" design that is a hybrid of both. My intent is to only do a tube nose section from the firewall forward and incorporate the roll cage and the stock “body frame” (in actuality the firewall is behind the seat but I am meaning the wall section forward the driver).




I currently could name off the top of my head a bunch of comp coupes currently running that have less than 38” and more than 6” neg. from OEM.

I wonder how they will take the news that their cars will no longer be legal.
Logged

jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)
dwarner
Guest

« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 07:32:09 AM »

Where did 38" come from?

DW
Logged
Jonny Hotnuts
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1522





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2007, 11:21:33 AM »

38" is the minimum for mod roadsters.
Doesn’t have anything to do with it now that I think about it but for some reason it was a number I had in my head about minimums when I read through the book a year ago.

          One concern that I have is that with only 3" per side a MS car with covered front wheels wells will not have adequate steering clearance unless the front section is budged to compensate to add more clearance or a trend of using very skinny tires to add a few more degrees of steering. Another alternative is to not include covered front wheels with you build.
I am fairly sure that every MS that has covered front wheels (and most that have fabed front ends) along with most CC’s have currently more than 3” on their track width and many records have been broken based on cars that had more than 3” per side.
To me I find that being able to do these sort of changes is the core reasons that you would opt to do a MS or CC instead of a GT or  GC-sedan.
Logged

jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)
dwarner
Guest

« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 01:51:24 PM »

Jonny,

The Alfa built by Rich Manchen, now owned by Mike Cook,  has a front tread less than 6" narrower than OEM using covered wheels. Bill Ward's Opel is OEM or wider, the Black Salt Bocar is OEM or wider using covered wheels. Other MS cars are Corvettes with OEM spacing. The ex-Turk Berkley and the Jack White Berkley are very close to OEM, certaintly not 6" narrower.

I agree that MS class is an excellent place to race. Many opportunities to explore different theories. As I mentioned before, to allow the class to change into streamliners again is not the way I would like to see it go.

DW
Logged
Sumner
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 73
Location: Blanding, Utah
Posts: 3963


Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere


WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2007, 02:20:36 PM »

Jonny,

The Alfa built by Rich Manchen, now owned by Mike Cook,  has a front tread less than 6" narrower than OEM using covered wheels. Bill Ward's Opel is OEM or wider, the Black Salt Bocar is OEM or wider using covered wheels. Other MS cars are Corvettes with OEM spacing. The ex-Turk Berkley and the Jack White Berkley are very close to OEM, certaintly not 6" narrower.

I agree that MS class is an excellent place to race. Many opportunities to explore different theories. As I mentioned before, to allow the class to change into streamliners again is not the way I would like to see it go.

DW

Is the change in width determined by center to center of the stock tires/wheels tread or the hub to hub measurement???

If it is hub to hub you might be able to suck the wheels/tires in enough to help cover the wheel openings with a different wheel offset along with the granted 6 inches,

Sum
Logged

jackson
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 70




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2007, 03:01:00 PM »

We will be cutting it close on the Berkeley.  I guess it is up to us to provide the documentation to prove the legality.  The Berkeley workshop manual calls out a "track width" of 42".  Depending on how you interpret track width will determine if we have to make any changes. Are they referring to outside to outside, or tread center to tread center, or hub to hub?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page July 31, 2017, 06:52:08 PM