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Author Topic: Bub Report  (Read 57353 times)
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Snail
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« Reply #135 on: September 08, 2007, 09:28:30 AM »

Aaron, I've been thinking about this some, and believe that the problems can be identified and solutions found.  Its too complex to type out now, but when we're bored and waiting for the rain and snow to go away this winter lets put together a proposal for Dennis to consider for next year.

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« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2007, 09:34:32 AM »

Glen, they did that last year, and I sent in a response.  Never heard back. 
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dwarner
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« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2007, 11:39:05 AM »

This is a perfect opportunity for those that offer their help at salt events to become a part of the solution.

Instead of proposing changes on this message board, form your suggestions into a positive program and convey them directly to Denis, Delevne and the BUB organizers.

DW
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JackD
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« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2007, 12:05:49 PM »

This is a perfect opportunity for those that offer their help at salt events to become a part of the solution.

Instead of proposing changes on this message board, form your suggestions into a positive program and convey them directly to Denis, Delevne and the BUB organizers.

DW
It has been done from before the start. rolleyes
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« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2007, 10:05:07 PM »

There was a woman on a turbo 'busa, Leslie(?) Porterfield, who went down at speed shortly thereafter, while we were tearing down my bike in impound. I don't know anything about the crash except someone told me she had broken some bones. I do know she had run as high as 194 earlier, so she's not some shrinking violet, she was going for it. I don't know anything about her bike

Anyone hear any updates on this lady? As one of the ambassadors for the broke wing club I'm wondering if we have a new inductee. wink
If anyone knows her please pass on our well wishes for a speedy recovery & the hopes that her injuries aren't too severe.

Deb
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« Reply #140 on: September 09, 2007, 02:46:05 AM »

Ok, got home safe, had a good time...watching. The salt was not in good condition, very hard to get a hold of, but did improve later in the week. While they do try, the folks at BUB can't totally control the conditions, Mother nature rules.
 The issues at "the line" were obviously a big problem, the language alone was rough at best, the abuse was harsh, on a volunteer who is following directions from higher up. Later in the week it got ugly and I don't think it helped the situation much. I'm sure a fix will be found and implemented, let's give them time to sort it out.
 The lack of respect that some competitors showed for others was criminal in some cases. They cheated, abusing track time in good conditions plain and simple is not fair and should be dealt with.
 The "short course" or RWB, was used on the last day for "lower speed" records, and since it is measured and certified, should be used for ALL those who run under 140 mph, and should be the qualifier to access the long course.  If the competitor has recorded history with BUB above 140 with that very machine, go to the 2, above 175 or maybe 185 go to the 0. Much time is waisted on the long course, on people with big goals and not enough performance to warrant being there, or riding the course as a tour. They jam up the program for their own pleasure and need to be warned and then eliminated from the competition.
 I feel very strongly regarding streamliners course priority, the opportunity of setting an absolute speed record must be respected, these folks are haul'in buxxx, us slow guys will be looking for another venue if we don't get along. BUB put their butts on the line financially to provide the place for us to "have a go". The setting of an absolute record brings media to report on and hopefully grow the awareness of our SMALL corner of motorsport.
 Last year, my first, I found the Salt an extended motorsport family, helpful and respectful of every competitors effort, I hope that will never change. Just like most families we need to self correct members who behave poorly. The BUB group will learn and grow and we need to grow along with them, let's work together to fix the problems and not fall into a name calling situation.  This is a great event for motorcyclists, lets have fun and make it better!

\



 Getting participants frustrated to a high level is not good for the event or the hoped for performance
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aswracing
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« Reply #141 on: September 09, 2007, 07:06:56 AM »

Streamliner delays weren't really the issue this year, like they were last year. Every time a streamliner was set to run, people would moan and groan and assume we'd be down for an hour, but for the most part they didn't really delay things much if any more than any other competitor. People were just highly sensitive to it because of the 2006 experience.

Personally I think that as long as they set up 3 lines, they're facilitating giving preferences to some over others, which is the root cause of the issue. Maintaining a "list" doesn't solve that issue. Someone a quarter mile back in the tow rig line theoretically is ahead of someone who just pulled up and is 30 feet from the front of the bikes-only line, but it doesn't work that way. When it comes to dispatching bikes to the start line, the people up front go, regardless of the list. The list also got transcribed at least once and things got shuffled.

This is what caused so much frustration, sitting there in line all day, only to see others getting multiple turns in the same day while while passed the 48-hour of waiting mark. That's Bentley, everyone pays the same entry fee, everyone should have the same opportunity.

The only fair way to do it is to make everyone line up into a single line and go in order. Otherwise there's opportunity for screwing it up. And they WILL screw it up if there's an opportunity to do so.

You talk of abusing the volunteers, but I'll tell you what, what they were doing to us is abuse too. They found my limits. I was at the point where I really didn't care any more if they threw me out, as it would've been an improvement over the current situation. I had nothing to lose at that point. Yeah, I wish it hadn't come to that, but I'm not the one who created the situation.

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« Reply #142 on: September 09, 2007, 08:07:16 AM »

The easy solution was previously proven by result and known to the promoters from the beginning.
As far back as 1989 when Easyrider did an all bike meet with a mix of "Run What You Brung" first timers, Seasoned competitors on open bikes, 2 tracks, multiple starting areas, multiple directions, and full streamliner availability to all the space available, it worked.
Did I mention the largest spectator crowd to ever witness an LSR World Record Attempt and a video narrated by Peter Fonda that was there during the running ?
Denis was there also in 1990 when the 221+ record was set and lasted so long.
I can still remember him jumping up to see through the window to try and see the time before it was announced by the official.
All of that was managed by a relatively small  crew that did a number of all bike events all over the US including Drag Racing, All Bike Rodeos, and Shows.
 Both Cathy, who ran the administrative portion of the event, and Al who was the person handling the the required logistics, with their supporting crew, had never been to the salt before, but pulled it off like veterans because they knew how to do an event.
The interest of the promoter for an event has to extend from one end to the other, or neglect will prevail.
Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it can't or hasn't already been done. 

NOW SCREAM 
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« Reply #143 on: September 09, 2007, 09:29:50 AM »

Leslie, the girl on the Hayabusa who crashed, suffered some broken ribs as well as abrasions and possibly other injuries I'm not aware of. I had just met her and Al Lamb in our pit after our own incident with the Ack Attack. She and Al seemed like really great people. I wished her well out there. She had a huge smile and seemed real excited about running fast.

They have a long trip back to Texas, and I'm sure Al will make it as comfortable for her as possible. Ribs are a tough thing, since you can't put them in a cast or anything. I wish her the best and hope she has the courage to get back on the horse after her wounds are healed. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Then you have to decide what to do with it.

I know we'll be back. I hope Leslie and Al do to.

Rocky
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« Reply #144 on: September 09, 2007, 09:40:21 AM »

Rocky, glad you made it out alive and undamaged!  That must have been quite a rush.  When you get the chance to talk about it I'd really like to hear what it was like.

I've always admired the courage it must take to be closed in and go that fast.  I couldn't do it.  I like sit on bikes because you always have the option of jumping.
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« Reply #145 on: September 09, 2007, 12:07:00 PM »

The Kansas Bad Man here.  I've read this entire thread, and agree with most, disagree with some.  Everyone creates a perception about the facts as they see them. 

Several people have pointed out that if everyone pays the same entry fee, everyone should be treated the same. 

This is what it cost the Vincent streamliner to participate at the Bub event in 2007.  The liner was entered in the Streamliner Blown Fuel class, 3000cc, with two riders.  Below you'll find the itemized costs:

Entry fee paid to the Bub Meet--$650

Pilot Don Angel's AMA fee--$225

Pilot Don Angel's medical stress bill--$1200

Pilot Hartmut Weidelich's FIM license--300Euro (around $435)

Total: $2410 is what the cost was for the streamliner's entry to the Bub Meet.
 
Now, my question would be, if monitary amounts determine the number of runs one would be allowed, how many runs would be acceptable in the eyes of those who feel this way?
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« Reply #146 on: September 09, 2007, 12:25:50 PM »

The Kansas Bad Man here.  I've read this entire thread, and agree with most, disagree with some.  Everyone creates a perception about the facts as they see them. 

Several people have pointed out that if everyone pays the same entry fee, everyone should be treated the same. 

This is what it cost the Vincent streamliner to participate at the Bub event in 2007.  The liner was entered in the Streamliner Blown Fuel class, 3000cc, with two riders.  Below you'll find the itemized costs:

Entry fee paid to the Bub Meet--$650

Pilot Don Angel's AMA fee--$225

Pilot Don Angel's medical stress bill--$1200

Pilot Hartmut Weidelich's FIM license--300Euro (around $435)

Total: $2410 is what the cost was for the streamliner's entry to the Bub Meet.
 
Now, my question would be, if monetary amounts determine the number of runs one would be allowed, how many runs would be acceptable in the eyes of those who feel this way?


I see where you are coming from, but I can't see ever lining people up based on what it cost them.  Your costs were high compared to most, but then again compare the cost of what you have in your liner since you have done most of the work to what is reported to be wrapped up in the BUB 7 liner.  Would you want him to maybe get in 20 runs to your 1 run based on build costs??

One thing I have tried to promote at Speed Week is that lets give some priority to those that have successfully run over 300 mph.  Let them come up a different lane and take the time they need off to the side to prepare to run and then hold things when they are ready and let them run.

I would be willing anytime to be put on hold in like to watch a 300+ mph car/bike go down the course.  They are getting to be all too few now and we need to encourage them in anyway we can.  Watching them are some of my fondest memories on the salt.

Granted running the streamliners in 2006 at BUB might of held things up slightly, but 5 years from now what will those of us that attended that meet remember --- one of the greatest high speed shootouts that the salt has seen, at least in a long time.

I think if BUB takes a hard look at their operating procedures they will greatly increase the efficiency of the meet and the time the streamliners take up at the meet will be negligible.

By the way since I wasn't there and didn't get to see, how did you guys do this year???

c ya,

Sum
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« Reply #147 on: September 09, 2007, 12:55:44 PM »

Hey Sum,

 The cost of the machine itself should not enter in in any way as to one entry's priority over another.
(That is, in the streamliner group)

 You commented that super speed should have priority, and asked how we did this year. 

We set the AMA record for Vintage Streamliner Blown Fuel at 217 and change.  Not a big number for those who are only looking at the number. 

I'll try to explain what I mean.  The liner went down the track a total of 6 times during the meet.  All runs were experiencing handling problems except for the last.  The transmission was taken out in the pits prior to any of the runs.  We locked it in high gear, and were pulling a 1.46 gear from a dead stop--no tow up or push, with a 30" tall rear Firestone tire.  The gear would have provided a 350 mph+ at 6500 rpm. 

The handling caused the liner to go from side to side, and in essence the skids became plows, which scrubbed off every time they hit, approximately 20 mph.  This would occur no less than five times during the run.

On the last run handling was corrected.  We had already passed the 1:00 o'clock deadline and were allowed to make our last run starting at the 2 mile.  Hartmut Weidelich was the pilot.  I had leaned it out for more power and increased the spring pressure on the slider clutch for more slip.  The liner accelerated rapidly pulling the tall, tall gear, and the engines reached 4600 rpm going into the timed mile, which equates to a little over 250 mph. 
 
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aswracing
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« Reply #148 on: September 09, 2007, 02:52:37 PM »

I always liked the way Sam Wheeler does it. He would wait in line, like everyone else, then he'd sit at the start line, letting others by, until conditions were right. I don't know how many times I've come to the front of the line to find Sam sitting there, waiting for the right conditions.

I'm like Sumner, I don't mind at all a small delay in proceedings to see a 300mph pass. I do, however, categorically reject the notion that some racers should be more privileged than others with respect to waiting in line based on what they spent getting there. That's just arrogant. Everyone deserves the same opportunity.
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« Reply #149 on: September 09, 2007, 03:08:47 PM »

..................We set the AMA record for Vintage Streamliner Blown Fuel at 217 and change.  Not a big number for those who are only looking at the number.......

........  We locked it in high gear, and were pulling a 1.46 gear from a dead stop--no tow up or push, with a 30" tall rear Firestone tire.  The gear would have provided a 350 mph+ at 6500 rpm..................

.......On the last run handling was corrected.  We had already passed the 1:00 o'clock deadline and were allowed to make our last run starting at the 2 mile.  Hartmut Weidelich was the pilot.  I had leaned it out for more power and increased the spring pressure on the slider clutch for more slip.  The liner accelerated rapidly pulling the tall, tall gear, and the engines reached 4600 rpm going into the timed mile, which equates to a little over 250 mph. 

Are you still running the Muncie???  If so, since it is 1:1 in high, why not just run a jack-shaft??  Just wondering..

Congrats on the record  grin.  I have lots of pictures of your liner from different years and have always admired the work you have put into it and the small, small frontal area.

Good to see that you might have a handle on the handling.  Wish you the best with it in the future,

Sum
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