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Author Topic: BUB Operation  (Read 16035 times)
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Larry C
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« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2007, 11:34:12 AM »

The car and bike FIM event is and interesting senario but it won't happen at the BUB meet. The major appeal is that this is a bike meet by bike people and I do not see that changing (at least I hope not) I don't recall the course closing for two hours waiting for a return run of a liner. The event kept running and when the liner was ready it was give priority, which I believe is the right thing to do. I think the "keep it simple" approach for the event is the best way to go (as suggested here in several posts) (1) pre stage outside the pit area, one line fits all. (2) Line up at short course and release long course from there. (3) Volunteers to organazie the pits as people arrive. (4) At least AMA short course record runs on RWYB course. (5) announcers that inform. ---- race and repeat !!!
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Sumner
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« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2007, 11:36:00 AM »

......................................
Interesting scenario, especially since Big Red is notorious for parachute failures. .
..........................................................

Now why do you think I had BUB with the chute failure and not Ack.......  cool . Thanks for addressing that possibility.

I ordered your book the other day and it should arrive in a few more days I hope.  I never ask for autographs, but I might have to make an exception in your case  smiley.  Guess I'll have to wait for Speed Week or BUB next year.

c ya and glad you didn't get hurt in your little mishap,

Sum
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Glen
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« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2007, 12:20:47 PM »

Yeah, I can just see SCTA/BNI, FIA, FIM & AMA all on the salt at the same time and trying to share the same real estate and get along. Leave it a bike only event, let the heavy hitters have their FIA meet and the hot rodders have theirs. The BLM says they need more events to justify the usage of the salt to be able to get Gov. support and funding. Same with save the salt.
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Glen
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pdubu
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« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2007, 12:52:24 PM »

First, adding a few car 'liners would be cool in a "Sunday, Sunday, Sunday Funny Car Extravaganza"-type way (that is the analogous event that pops into my head), but would detract from the overall bike-only cool factor of the current event. Now setting up a psuedo-road course for the AHRMA guys to run on the salt would be a hoot (not realistic for many reasons though).

Back to the intent of this overall thread.

If we can take it as a given that there will be two safety crews on hand, so in case of an accident only the RWB course would be shut down due to the lack of a safety crew. If we also add on Jon's estimate that it takes 1/2 hour to clear the accident from the course, then we still need to account for course cleanup/repair (Jon, or is that in your estimate?) and some time for wind variations. It seems that maybe an hour run time, followed by an hour course shutdown (or until the 'liner runs) might be in order. The head honcho of 'liner team could make the call/request for less run time if turnaround is expected to be brief.

Or just add a parallel course to the existing one just for the 'liners. Not real feasible, but plausible.
 

« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 07:10:10 PM by pdubu » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2007, 04:47:52 AM »

After a streamliner runs and is in the 2 hour return window bikes do continue to run.  The starter will keep race control informed of the teams time line for their return and as many bikes are run, as can be, without impacting the return run.  If there is a down time it is usually because it takes the team a bit longer than expected to get the liner ready to run or the wind interferes.  The liners (and all FIM bikes) do get preferential treatment on their return run because of the two hour limit.

It's quite a balancing act to keep everything running in a safe mode when you have four starting lines on one course.  From my perspective (last year at mile 0 and this year at miles 7 and 9) things ran well on the course.  I know that we tried to get the next bike out as soon as the previous bike had cleared the course.  Race control (Rex) would rotate around to the various starting lines to keep things flowing, but every time the course was reversed there was a little down time.  This year we also seemed to have more problems with the wind and weather throughout the day, as opposed to last year where the weather seemed to come up in the afternoon.

Having the RWB course took a lot of pressure off of the international course as it was always busy.  I like the idea of using the RWB course for records as the timing clocks are there and it would divert some more traffic from the international course.  If all 350 entries would have had to run on a single course, at three minute intervals it would have taken seventeen and a half hours for each bike to make a run.  With weather or any other delays, that's two days to get one run. 

I think this puts the event into the category of "victim of its own success".

Glenn
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lynnk
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« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2007, 02:11:24 PM »

Good day all, Lynn King # 200 MPS
Post 3
This post will cover some old and some new stuff.

Re: Are we racing or viewing, from Jon and Bak.
Are you so narrowly focussed that you can't enjoy the full experiance of the event?
I race, I also enjoy spectating.

Re: suggestions. By Jon
It appears as though you are saying the only way is your way---others have offered suggestions, you continue to say the ONLY way it will work is your way. Am I reading your comments correctly?

Re: Having the pits near the start line due to the distance ridden/driven to the staging area.
Do the math. As it was we had to go three miles to the start/staging and ended at the 6 or 7.
Then 1 to 2 miles back to the pits. If we pit at the 2, we go down to the 6 or 7 and come back 5 or 6.
where did we lessen the distance??

Re: Bak and support. I have heard from you multiple times "If it doesn't get fixed, I'm pulling out wy support". If you pull out, will the meet stop?
Please quit threatening and continue to make constructive criticizums and recommendations. Hopefully
the best of them will be implemented. Not all will by any of us, but perhaps the best will.

Re: volenteers.  Here's a wild one taken from one of my other intrests---would everyone be willing
to pay an extra $ 100 or $ 150 to have a professional organization run the show Huh?

Re: Communications. The dedicated FM station worked quite well. My crew was able to hear all 5 runs,
when I was starting my run, and what my speed was rite after the run. As a past radio announcer,
KFJC The Fine 89, the tower crew could use a little professional help. They did the best they could.
It will only get better.

Re: Jon and Bub crew getting this info. I sincerely hope they are getting ALL of this, not a filtered
or biased version.

Re: Keep the couse running while liners/Fim bikes prep for up run.
Already addressed, and it worked well.

Re: Safty crews. Yup, two or more crews would have helped. But remember, they were volentees
also.....
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landracing
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« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2007, 02:35:35 PM »

Quote
Re: Are we racing or viewing, from Jon and Bak.
Are you so narrowly focussed that you can't enjoy the full experiance of the event?
I race, I also enjoy spectating.

Are you serious about this comment. Have you read what I do with Landracing.com. It's time entrants better used their time. I mean If I can take hundreds of pictures and post them to the website, write commentary on the event and post them (every couple hours while on the salt, and the only one who does it every event), race my bike, help brother race his bike and I very seldom miss any of the action. then goto the hotel at night and do more pictures and updates and even got video out last event. And I am a sole operator of the website. Are you now going to tell me that I can't experience the whole event. I haven't missed an event on the salt in over 10 years, with exception of this event. I know almost everything that goes on at any event, speeds, accidents, blow ups etc etc.

Quote
Re: suggestions. By Jon
It appears as though you are saying the only way is your way---others have offered suggestions, you continue to say the ONLY way it will work is your way. Am I reading your comments correctly?

I have never said it was only my way. I am not the organizer of the meet. I only offer the forum and strong feelings on what DOES work. Can you offer me any comments on why the suggestion I gave will not work?

Quote
Re: Having the pits near the start line due to the distance ridden/driven to the staging area.
Do the math. As it was we had to go three miles to the start/staging and ended at the 6 or 7.
Then 1 to 2 miles back to the pits. If we pit at the 2, we go down to the 6 or 7 and come back 5 or 6.
where did we lessen the distance??

not to sound negative and im really not trying to, but who cares how far you have to travel to and from. Where does distance traveled matter anywhere. All the matters is you get down the course in a timely fashing correct?

Quote
Re: volenteers.  Here's a wild one taken from one of my other intrests---would everyone be willing
to pay an extra $ 100 or $ 150 to have a professional organization run the show Huh?

Because there isn't a professional organization that does this type of racing, or have to deal with the conditions in which we run.

Quote
Re: Jon and Bub crew getting this info. I sincerely hope they are getting ALL of this, not a filtered
or biased version.

They are reading the exact info you are reading. And the right people are reading this and coming up with best solution.


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landracing
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« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2007, 02:54:39 PM »

And to be real frank with you, YES I believe that the list system has proven it will not work at all. This has been proven during the end of the meet in 2006, and proven useless at the 2007 meet. And moreover it has proven it did not work very well in Australia? Have you been there? I happen to be there and raced, it saw it first hand. Confusion at best. Does my opinion mean it's going to happen? Probably not. But I can suggest it.

And what harm would it be to scratch the whole system and use one that proves it works, and can work very efficiently. There are no cars at the event, so really the meet should be just as smooth then a combined event. Would you agree.

Jon
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lynnk
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« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2007, 05:17:00 PM »

Lynn King # 200 MPS
Jon, thank you for your VERY spirited reply and comments. Re: Am I serious?
My statement was based on your quote in reply #45 on pg.4, "Again want to race or spectate".

Yes I do know who you are, what you do, and how very much you contribute. Thank you for all you give to this forum. Few could do what you do. Only YOU do it.
I'm giving my literal interpritations to your comments. I'm very sorry if my understanding of your comments isn'that you ment to portray.

Re: Suggestions on "Why your suggestion will not work".
There is no reason it shouldn't work--I never said it wouldn't. As I offered earlier in my posts I do think the system could have worked well with proper training of volenteers. The "list" was bad in that we needed a large board--as I mentioed earlier.

Re:Travel distance. This was brought up by someone, not you, that we would have less distance to travel if the pits were at the start. Really a non issue. Sorry for wasting your time on that.

Re: Reply # 67. I don't know if this was directed at me, but I feel done correcly, it could/might have worked.

Again, thanks for your patience with me. Thanks for your efforts and contributions.
I'm just an old retired toolmaker and retired 500 GP Racer.

Lynn King
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landracing
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« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2007, 06:13:16 PM »

Lynn,

All in good fun and it should be a fun place to discuss, throw options out there and reason. This is one of the best threads the forum has seen in awhile.


Jon
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« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2007, 12:23:33 PM »

Jon,

I was looking for you so I could meet you and pee on your sidecar.   smiley
Sorry your part didn't come in.

I'm going to suggest to Delvene that they run it like the Pebble Beach Golf Course. Do viewers on this site go along with the suggestion that the number of people that come to BUB be restricted in numbers? 
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One Fast ZX-14
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John@JE Pistons
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« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2007, 01:44:47 PM »

Jon,

I was looking for you so I could meet you and pee on your sidecar.   smiley
Sorry your part didn't come in.

I'm going to suggest to Delvene that they run it like the Pebble Beach Golf Course. Do viewers on this site go along with the suggestion that the number of people that come to BUB be restricted in numbers? 

They could always just limit it to vehicles that run over 200mph... cheesy
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2007, 12:48:18 PM »

S/VBF#785 The goal of the Vincent stremliner is to set the outright World Landspeed Record for Motorcycles.  You could be the World's Fastest, and not be recognized as the World Record Holder unless you attend an FIM sanctioned meet.  As the Bub Meet is the only venue to meet this criteria, I want to thank Denis Manning for giving someone like me a chance to compete for the title.

I don't think a numbering system would ever work, due to logistics.  I was just recently at the DMV where there was a sign, large and clear, with instructions.  The instructions were quite simple.  Take a number and wait for your number to be called.  This was fair.  First come.  first served.  The number holders were called in sequence, yet the duration of the times at the window were different, and sometimes different to the extreme.  some had their act together, some didn't, and some obviously were taking care of more than one tag application at a time.

How is what I have just said applicable to what was observed during the Bub Meet as a participant?  the numbering system worked at the DMV.  Everyone in the room had a number,.  It was their number.  we all had a tab of paper with our number on it.

How it worked at the Bub Meet for the Vincent crew anywqay, was when I felt the liner was ready to make a run, I'd send a representtive to the prestage person and my representative would inform the prestage person that #785 was ready to make a run.  He would come back to me and say that he had put us on the list.  However, I received no number so the only one privy to the sequence of numbers on the list was the list holder.

I suppose that if my representative had asked what our number was, he would have been given a number verbally.  Anything verbal in an organizational situation has the potential to lead to confusion.  Probably after hours of waiting in line to make a run we wold have been asking ourselves, "Does anyone remember our number?"

The participant should be telling the starting official his position, instead of the starting official telling the participant, if the participant was in a single line the starting official would be told that information by virtue of the fact that he was next in line.
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Stainless1
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« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2007, 08:33:48 AM »

Maxx, you don't need no stinking number  undecided
The FIM streamliners get to go at will, when ready don't they?
When I get back from WF, I'll stop by to chat with you and Patti again  smiley
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Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2007, 03:17:21 PM »

Maxx, you don't need no stinking number  undecided
The FIM streamliners get to go at will, when ready don't they?
When I get back from WF, I'll stop by to chat with you and Patti again  smiley

Well stainless, the way I see it, things have changed a bit since the 2005 Bub Meet when Denis gave a speech concerning streamliner priority, and the reasons for it.

On one occasion during the 2007 Meet, after waiting all day in line, we were told at the zero mile that we'd be the next ones to run.  we were given a 10 minute notification.  the rider, Hartmut Wedelich, was strapped into the liner.  The wind came up so we had to wait for another 30 minutes.  then they closed down the meet due to wind conditions.  early the next morning we came to the line assuming that we would be the first to run.

This didn't happen.  We were notified that there were 42 bikes ahead of us on the list.

I talked to the list holder and mmentioned that I felt this was wrong and asked "What about the priorities of streamliners?"  I was emphatically told, "There are no priorities for streamliners."

Some have indicated in this thread that streamliners had priority.  I can deffinetly say that the Vincent streamliner had no priority whatsoever, and waited in line like everyone else to be told by the starting official when we could run.

In short I believe that a list should not be used, in order to be fair to all of the competitors.

I can't speak for the other streamliners.
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