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Author Topic: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)  (Read 606350 times)
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maguromic
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« Reply #315 on: July 09, 2008, 11:34:16 AM »

The housing is on the F2 is like the F3R, the problem that I have heard from more than one person (some drag guys as well) is the shaft wobbling inside.  With it spinning at 60,000 rmp, thats a lot of bearing and gear speed.  My friend blew his trans out before he got into high gear.  I am not knocking Procharger, just trying to find a solution before it becomes a problem.

I also looked at the supercharger store gear drive.  the two problems it has is it needs 14" in front of my engine, which I don't have and like you mentioned its $3000.  I am designing a gear drive to run all my pumps off the timing gear and the way I am leaning is to run a extra gear and step it to so I can run the blower at 8.5 to1.  So it will have the 5.4 to 1 in the trans and the second set on the step up will bring the final to 8.5 to 1. 

I also looked at running a 3" 15 rib belt.  When I have all this figured out I will post a picture.
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thundersalt
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« Reply #316 on: July 09, 2008, 12:38:26 PM »

Troy, nice winch. Looks just like the one we are going to use this year. Last year we had one of those cheap 3500lb rolling winch you can get from summit, what a piece of s***. It would never spool right and always jam at the worst time when loading. Anyone putting a winch on your trailer, do your self a favor and get a good one at least 6000Lb Warn or Mile Marker.
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bvillercr
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« Reply #317 on: July 09, 2008, 02:47:59 PM »

Troy, nice winch. Looks just like the one we are going to use this year. Last year we had one of those cheap 3500lb rolling winch you can get from summit, what a piece of s***. It would never spool right and always jam at the worst time when loading. Anyone putting a winch on your trailer, do your self a favor and get a good one at least 6000Lb Warn or Mile Marker.

Same with us, when we get the car half way in the old winch would lag and stop pulling.  It was a 4500# and this is an 8000#, should do the trick.  We will find out Tuesday night if it works.
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« Reply #318 on: July 09, 2008, 03:36:38 PM »

............................. After messing with mechanical fuel injection i suggest blowing into a big 4 barrel carb. Their's an engine builder making over 1700 hp with a big chev an F2 -4 Barrel -pump gas and cog belt. Steve Morrison i believe.

                           Good luck  JL222

So are you going to the carb??  Also are you going to put spill plates on top of the spoiler and run them to the axle?

c ya,

Sum

 Hi Sum
 The carb suggestion was for Magourmic, will stick with the mechancal for now unless i get completly frustrated.The guys at the dyno shop our FAST electronic dealers which i was glad to find out because they are less than 20 min from me.
 Will stick with existing spill plates for now and just add the bottom pieces. We hope to improve the airflow and downforce with them. The prostock guys don't use top spill plates and run their spoilers pretty flat.I talked to one pro stock guy a while back who said he would run the top spill plates if NHRA would let him.

                      JL222
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 04:09:15 PM by Sumner » Logged
jl222
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« Reply #319 on: July 09, 2008, 03:56:05 PM »

Troy,

That looks fine as long as it is not over 10" long.

DW

   Hi Dan
 Thanks for getting right back on the spoiler. I was waiting for you to reply before i went any further.Anyhow its to Dodge hot to work on it this afternoon, suppost to reach 112 degrees today,got to get things done in the morning.

                     JL222
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Sumner
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« Reply #320 on: July 09, 2008, 04:17:58 PM »

............................. After messing with mechanical fuel injection i suggest blowing into a big 4 barrel carb. Their's an engine builder making over 1700 hp with a big chev an F2 -4 Barrel -pump gas and cog belt. Steve Morrison i believe.

                           Good luck  JL222

So are you going to the carb??  Also are you going to put spill plates on top of the spoiler and run them to the axle?

c ya,

Sum

 Hi Sum
 The carb suggestion was for Magourmic, will stick with the mechancal for now unless i get completly frustrated.The guys at the dyno shop our FAST electronic dealers which i was glad to find out because they are less than 20 min from me.
 Will stick with existing spill plates for now and just add the bottom pieces. We hope to improve the airflow and downforce with them. The prostock guys don't use top spill plates and run their spoilers pretty flat.I talked to one pro stock guy a while back who said he would run the top spill plates if NHRA would let him.

                      JL222


Adding the tops would do two things.  One help with adding and moving the CP rearwards and two keeping the air on the spoiler and not letting it "spill" off the sides, also helping to keep the car running straight.  I would also keep the spoiler flat like you plan on doing.  I'm sure the two reasons I stated is why the pro stock guy would run them if allowed, especially #2.

I have wondered how to run the mechanical fuel injection and have it boost reference in case we went to a turbo set-up for Hooley's Stude and then the injectors would be seeing the boost pressure on them, which they aren't now since they are before the blower.  I didn't see a way and felt that would be a stumbling block,  but was told by a poster on here that there is a way and that he would explain it the next time he sees me.  I'll let him decide if he should jump in here and explain it publicly.

I'm anxious for your dyno run and the results  smiley.  Good luck with that and I sure want to see you guys go fast this year.  You have sure put a lot of effort into the car and a good speed would be a good reward.

c ya,

Sum
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jl222
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« Reply #321 on: July 09, 2008, 05:31:38 PM »

............................. After messing with mechanical fuel injection i suggest blowing into a big 4 barrel carb. Their's an engine builder making over 1700 hp with a big chev an F2 -4 Barrel -pump gas and cog belt. Steve Morrison i believe.

                           Good luck  JL222

So are you going to the carb??  Also are you going to put spill plates on top of the spoiler and run them to the axle?

c ya,

Sum

 Hi Sum
 The carb suggestion was for Magourmic, will stick with the mechancal for now unless i get completly frustrated.The guys at the dyno shop our FAST electronic dealers which i was glad to find out because they are less than 20 min from me.
 Will stick with existing spill plates for now and just add the bottom pieces. We hope to improve the airflow and downforce with them. The prostock guys don't use top spill plates and run their spoilers pretty flat.I talked to one pro stock guy a while back who said he would run the top spill plates if NHRA would let him.

                      JL222


Adding the tops would do two things.  One help with adding and moving the CP rearwards and two keeping the air on the spoiler and not letting it "spill" off the sides, also helping to keep the car running straight.  I would also keep the spoiler flat like you plan on doing.  I'm sure the two reasons I stated is why the pro stock guy would run them if allowed, especially #2.

I have wondered how to run the mechanical fuel injection and have it boost reference in case we went to a turbo set-up for Hooley's Stude and then the injectors would be seeing the boost pressure on them, which they aren't now since they are before the blower.  I didn't see a way and felt that would be a stumbling block,  but was told by a poster on here that there is a way and that he would explain it the next time he sees me.  I'll let him decide if he should jump in here and explain it publicly.

I'm anxious for your dyno run and the results  smiley.  Good luck with that and I sure want to see you guys go fast this year.  You have sure put a lot of effort into the car and a good speed would be a good reward.

c ya,

Sum

 Sum

Hilborn Fuel Injection makes a system for turbochargers that we tried to use at one time but just used part of the system,which is why it didn't work out.Go to page 9 of this build and you will see the boost referancing device.(on the fuel tank between my hands) the fuel returns from the barell valve and a boost line goes in on the other side as boost goes up it restricts fuel flow and richens the engine. You can also change the restriction in the boost line.Their system requires two separate nozles -8 idle -8-high speed.and various check valves. They used their systems on the Offy engines at Indy for years.their web site shows their system but not the whole picture as what is needed on the air bleeds on the idle or low speed circuit.
 We will stick with our old spill plates for now as they have worked for us in the past,and the bottom plates are easy to make.

         JL222
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maguromic
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« Reply #322 on: July 09, 2008, 05:39:41 PM »

I have incorporated part of the Hilborn stuff along with Enderly and Kinsler into my fuel injection system. The Offy "GURU" Stewart Van Dyne is designing the system for me.
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« Reply #323 on: July 09, 2008, 05:51:24 PM »

I have incorporated part of the Hilborn stuff along with Enderly and Kinsler into my fuel injection system. The Offy "GURU" Stewart Van Dyne is designing the system for me.

 Its good to have an expert with real experiance in your corner.I hope you can tell us all about it.

  JL222
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« Reply #324 on: July 09, 2008, 08:27:57 PM »

.........................Hilborn Fuel Injection makes a system for turbochargers that we tried to use at one time but just used part of the system,which is why it didn't work out.Go to page 9 of this build and you will see the boost referancing device.(on the fuel tank between my hands) the fuel returns from the barell valve and a boost line goes in on the other side as boost goes up it restricts fuel flow and richens the engine. You can also change the restriction in the boost line.Their system requires two separate nozles -8 idle -8-high speed.and various check valves. They used their systems on the Offy engines at Indy for years.their web site shows their system but not the whole picture as what is needed on the air bleeds on the idle or low speed circuit.............

Thanks for that explanation.  That makes sense and I went to their site and saw the parts you are talking about.  With EFI you usually boost reference the fuel pump and have it follow the boost up normally adding 1 lb. of pressure for each lb. of boost.  With the Hilborn sensor valve is there any kind of direct correlation or do you just have to put it on the dyno and adjust on it to get the tune you want??  Hopefully what I'm asking makes sense.

Thanks,

Sum
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 10:18:20 PM by Sumner » Logged

maguromic
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« Reply #325 on: July 09, 2008, 09:16:41 PM »

JL222

I am lucky that Stewart is helping on this project.  Among others he has shortened the learning curve as well as the damaged parts.  As I get the set up together I will post pictures. Still trying to get all my ducks to gather to start a build page.  It’s hard to push things to get done when your getting freebies and friends helping you get things done.

Sum, since I am running a vintage motor, the fuel injection is mechanical and from what Stewart tells me. All of the adjusting and tuning will be done on the dyno.  With his check valve system I can put  a fuel curve with the mechanical injection.  For a better explanation you might want to give Stewart a call, he is in the rulebook.

For those of you who don't know Stewart Van Dyne, he was the head engine builder at Drake Offy and built the Indy 500 winning engine in Mark Donahue's car among other winning Offy engines.  He is also one innovator when it comes to engines and built them for stream liners to roadsters.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 09:21:51 PM by maguromic » Logged

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« Reply #326 on: July 09, 2008, 10:25:55 PM »

If I get this thing to post it should be a picture of an Offy engine on the dyno at Drake Engineering around 1981. The serial number is: "The Last Offy" and I think Steward and John Drake built it for John Mallard. Not sure of the name. The pic is of the motor at 9500 rpm and making around 780 hp at 56 inches of boost. Offys and stock  blocks were given 56 inches and Cosworths ran at 49, I think. Chuck Kendal presently has the engine in his collection. I took the picture with my old Minolta 35 mm standing in the dyno room. What a blast!!!

Rex


* The_last_Offy.jpg_rs.jpg (98.47 KB, 575x470 - viewed 324 times.)
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« Reply #327 on: July 09, 2008, 11:06:22 PM »

If I get this thing to post it should be a picture of an Offy engine on the dyno at Drake Engineering around 1981. The serial number is: "The Last Offy" and I think Steward and John Drake built it for John Mallard. Not sure of the name. The pic is of the motor at 9500 rpm and making around 780 hp at 56 inches of boost. Offys and stock  blocks were given 56 inches and Cosworths ran at 49, I think. Chuck Kendal presently has the engine in his collection. I took the picture with my old Minolta 35 mm standing in the dyno room. What a blast!!!

Rex

Rex -Magourmic
 great picture Rex, 56'' is only 13 or 14 lbs boost, does Stewart or any body know what the boost and HP levels were before they put limits on.Turbos and especialy centrifugals.

                  JL222
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« Reply #328 on: July 10, 2008, 12:25:04 AM »

JL222

I don’t know if it was Rex or Stewart that told me, their was a Offy turbo on the dyno at Dan Gurney’s and the throttle stuck on it.  To stop it they started loading the dyno.  Finally when the dust cleared the dyno read either 1000 or 1200 HP.  Not bad for a 4 cylinder designed in the 40’s

Does anybody know the numbers for the Offy that George Parker ran in his stream liner?  I think it had a turbo.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:26:44 AM by maguromic » Logged

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« Reply #329 on: July 13, 2008, 09:35:30 PM »

The sides on the spoiler are finished.  The paint needs to dry and then installed.  I will be up working on the winch and starting the car one final time so we can adjust the valves before we take it to the dyno on Wednesday.  I will take pictures on Tuesday and post that night.
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