Tire for Sam

[PorkPie]

The trick is, to use a very thin rubber layer at last on the outside of the carbon base. To Craigs information is this not a problem. It was discussed to do this for the SoA, but at last they done the pure carbon for the ground contacting surface.
Using this system on a streamline bike wouldn't be a problem, the size and the weight could be optimize with the computer.
And again, the problem with solid aluminium wheels on bikes was weight and balance problem. Not the balance of the wheel, the balance of the bike, due to weight on the wrong place of the wheel.
Best example was the Easy Rider solution, same problem on the Pea Soup Andersen's Monster.

[JackD]

Don Vesco tried bonded Polyurathane on the contact surface of a very light wheel assembly and it failed.
He did it with the best methods available from the industry.
The surface in contact with the dirt that displaces the surface to get a bite doesen't care if it is aluminum ar a laminated fibre.
A pnenumatic tire for those speeds and required down loading has not been developed.
It is a simular problem with wheel driven vehicles that are for the most part going half the speed.
I guess you just had to be there when the first edition of the Herbert liner sat on the line at idle and while the wheels spun on the salt it failed to procede.
Th English rocket bike that went over 300 mph ran to the limit of the available pneumatic tires and couldn't get past towing speeds with the aluminum front wheel.
A good indication of the forces involved would include a weight comparison of the assembly.
When it did move , Vesco turned out in about 1 mile and said it was not going to work.
It came back to the next meet that year and now with the available LSR tires it unmasked other problems.

[wheelspin]

Ok Jack , I get it now. I ran some of my models ( computer) and slowly decreased the coefficient of friction of the tires and I see what you mean, The solid wheel wont work because there is nothing for it to bite into when you need a lateral or centering force, the surface is too hard to get the necessary interlocking. Also I think the gyroscopic effect of a solid wheel would be a big problem. So the million dollar question is where do you get a set of 400MPH motorcycle tires and what is Sam going to do???

[JackD]

The race for fastest MC has been pushed to 400mph and as is the problem with most LSR stuff the tires remain the limiting factor.
The Supersonic barrier presents a whole other set of problems for a land vehicle that have not been mastered yet.
Even water gets harder the faster you go.
With all the desire expressed for a suitable tire to accommodate 1 MC liner, where is the concern for the others ?
Am I supposed to believe that is the limiting factor for just one ?

[PorkPie]

The surface in contact with the dirt that displaces the surface to get a bite doesen't care if it is aluminum ar a laminated fibre.


[/quote]

Jack, you be right with this comment, but I'm not talking about laminated fibre.

The shown layer, which touch the ground is RUBBER, normal rubber as an "average Joe" tire

Also important is the "profile" of the wheel to eliminate the gyroscopic effect - this is possible.

I discussed my idea a while ago with some tire specialist (when this new Michelin solid tire/wheel was coming out - this concept is still in testing, but the producer is still interest to get it in production...wait and see).

They said, the only problem with the idea is just the cost......they calculate about 10 000+ dollar for each wheel.

[crusher]

mr pork pie
        what was the pea soup anderson car?

[RidgeRunner]

     Some interesting related thoughts on the relationship of rubber and friction by Kevin Cameron can be found on the top of page 111, Dec. '06 issue of Cycle World Magazine.

[PorkPie]

mr pork pie
        what was the pea soup anderson car?

Slick Gardner, a "big" farmer in Buellton, CA, there where the Dry Lake Hall of Fame is, bought the 1967/68 Green Monster from Art Arfons, the three times world land speed record holder from Akron/OH.

He modified a little bit the fin and done the car on solid aluminium wheels - he copied simple the shape of normal tire for the aluminium piece.....
He run the car at Bonneville twice without success but some wet pants......

[PorkPie]

Here a picture of the running Pea Soup

[JackD]

The last I saw of the car was it was on display at the entrance to the Peterson Museum in L.A.
While the power was often compared to a rubber balloon full of air and just let go, the ride was just as scenic.

[JGMagoo]

I have noticed from pictures that Yacoucci/Costella run aluminum front wheels on their streamliners. Does anybody know how are they making them work?

[JackD]

A car is quite a different animal and not dependant for as much side thrust in the front steering wheels to stay upright.
The power is supplied with enough rubber tired traction working with the aero design and running surface to produce the speeds.
While it might work well enough for a car that was a very small area in front of a very long wheelbase, shorten it up to 1/2 or try It on a roadster and it will fail.

[RichFox]

I believe Jack's 5050 motorcycle 'liner also has an aluminum front wheel

[tomsmith]

As an iggernut person, I suspect that rubber tire treads do flex and deflect a bit (however miniscule they might flex and however little rubber is left after shaving) whereas metal ones don't.  Do you think the two types of wheels might feel and act a bit different no matter how much you try to get metal to feel like rubber?  This is from a person (me) that definitely does not know any better, but it looks like Jack do.

[JackD]

Shaving is only meant to reduce the unsupported rubber mass and associated failure.
The action against the surface is the final objective.
With increased speed the demands are greater and what might seem to work at a reduced speed, is quite different when pushing that same rope twice as fast.