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Author Topic: Australian Jaguar Build  (Read 27832 times)
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dirtydave
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2007, 08:03:45 AM »

Hey Lynchy,
there is a guy in Adelaide that Drag Raced a V12 Jag in a hot rod for years, and did quite well in it,
PM me on the DLRA site if your interested in getting in contact, He was a co ANDRA delegate with me in South OZ, a few years back..
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Lynchy
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 01:19:23 AM »

Dirty

Thanks matey, I'll drop you a line.

Meanwhile here's another update (it's been a while)

I've been down to Sydney recently and got out to check out the Jag.

Last update mentioned that Gaz bought a couple of spare cars for their engines, it also made it apparent that the car he has is very good. The 2 spares are little more than rust held together by paint and dirt. They are also handy for spares that may be needed down the track.

Work is still in progress on the roll cage! Just when you think he's finished on it, paranoia sets in and more bar work is the end result. He's cross braced the roof bars and has put in the side impact bars. Here's some shots of these:




The second photo also shows a bit more of the tailshaft tunnel / centre console that has been fabricated. It is quite large but needed to be as the tailshaft and gearbox now sit higher in the car as it has been lowered so much. It also adds to the strength of the car.

and here's a shot of the rear bar work that has been finished. I think the last photo I posted of this was when it was still in progress:



Gary is going to add in a support to the front header bar as demonstrated here:



but this won't go in till later. A bar is going to be fitted across the dash and tie into the front upright bars. Once this is in place the front support will go in. The bar across the dash will be welded to the firewall and could be used to mount bits and pieces (steering column, electronic dash, etc). Another bar that will be fitted will go from the base of the central hoop, next to the driver and up to the roof bar. This will have a few straps also welded to it and back to the central hoop to keep the drivers head contained in the car.

Here's a couple of more photos that may help visualize this:




In the first image if you can imagine a bar coming up from the bottom left and going up next to his head. Ignore the helmet, this is also for testing purposes.

In a previous post I mentioned using an SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus). Here's a shot of it as well:



Gaz was thinking it would go next to the seat but it will go in the boot for safety reasons. The regulator screws into the top and a hose will go through a bulkhead in the rear firewall and get connected via another hose to the helmet. The pressure out of the reg is very low. One area to still be worked out is the fire extinguishers. There will be two for the engine bay, one for the cabin and possibly another one for the boot. If we go for the Coldfire system the SCBA may not be needed but would be useful if the cabin fills with smoke.

We talked some more about ventilation for the cabin and an idea is to run fresh air into the car via the frame rails which would be sealed. A throttle body at the front could be opened to let air in but could be sprung shut in the event of fire and the fire bottles being triggered....

The diff is finally finished, check it out:



Does it look strong enough? The car will get some time on a drag strip as well as the salt just for fun. It will also get used wherever else it can. So the diff is probably overkill.

The diff centre is currently set up with a 4.11:1 on a spool for when the car finally gets fired up and a test drive happens, these will be swapped for 2.5's for the lake. So the diff is ready to be fitted and the car will be on the rear wheels soon. He's got a set of front hubs that need to be fitted with bigger studs that will also allow the front discs to be mounted before the front wheels will go on.

There is another discussion on the Aussie board at the moment regarding front brakes and whether or not to fit them. The Jag will get them as they will cause minimal drag, the weight doesn't matter, the car will be used for other purposes and in case anything goes wrong with the chute.

One more thing is the front air dam. Gaz found a rear bar off a late model Falcon which looks soooo good:



This may or may not get used depending on the rules for this class. It may be that the standard front bar gets used over the top of this one or this bar gets cut to allow the standard bar to be used or it is modified in some other way. The way the rules are, we have to use a standard front bar but can't protrude anything in front of this....

One more thing is ride height. Under advice from Bob Ellis (200+ MPH in an aussie falcon C/GCC), we'll have to lift the rear a bit to get air out from under the car to prevent lift. It was always going to come up a bit but we may have to keep an eye on this. The car will be getting a bellypan which will also double as a skidplate to prevent hooking up when the car gets loaded onto trailers and this arches up at the rear of the car. The car may also get a spoiler but this depends on what was available for this model car (under the rules for MS) and if it suits the purpose.

So what's happening at the moment...

Assembling the diff to fit it
Work on the front hubs
Finish off the cage........
Organise the fire system
Decide on a new engine management computer
Order a tailshaft
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 11:54:45 AM »

Great looking fab work! Especially on the cage. I want everyone to pay attention to the CORRECT way to mate cage tubes together at intersections!!! All of the tubes are joined at the intersections such that their centerlines cross a the center of the joint. You don't see any tubes that are connected to other tubes away from the joint just because it is easier. All of the tube load paths converge at a common point.This cage is done right.

Great job!

Ever notice though that the steering wheel is on the wrong side? Is this because toilets spin the opposite direction down under??

Rex
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JackD
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 03:26:48 PM »

The joining methods vary by material and intended application by design often with rules to match.
Offset bracing has a crush ability that is required for some types of materials and use.

"A blanket statement only serves to blanket the hidden details." (me)
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 11:19:43 PM »

Jack,
I haven't seen many rule books that define the "eccentricity" of a tube joint and I don't thinks that a poorly designed joint is better because it has "crushibility". Most of them are made because the person doing the design either doesn't know the correct way or is to lazy to do it the correct way.

Rex

BTW how do you calculate "crushibility"?
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Rex

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Lynchy
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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2007, 12:28:20 AM »

Quote
Great looking fab work! Especially on the cage. I want everyone to pay attention to the CORRECT way to mate cage tubes together at intersections!!! All of the tubes are joined at the intersections such that their centerlines cross a the center of the joint. You don't see any tubes that are connected to other tubes away from the joint just because it is easier. All of the tube load paths converge at a common point.This cage is done right.

Great job!

Rex - Thanks, I will pass on your comments to the accountant that built the cage. He is pretty anal about everything looking right and being right and as safe as possible (because he is also the test pilot and hopefully not the crash test dummy - another Owner/Builder/Racer). He also fabbed the brace on the rear of the diff, when he took the brace back to the diff builder to finish it off he was asked why he made it so nice, as there were no gaps anywhere. Some people are just perfectionists.

Regards
Lynchy
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JackD
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2007, 12:45:20 AM »

Rex
The cage shown in the pictures seems to be very substantial and well suited to the application.
Speak to the vehicle shown and don't impose those methods and standards on everything with a cage.
You might examine the SFI requirements for 4130 TF chassis for example.
"Crushability" is a specifically tested feature of a design that is part of the overall package.
Every racing series is unique with rules to match.
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Carl Johansson
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2007, 09:14:53 AM »

How do you guys get out of that thing?  If you will be running at Bonneville your driver will have to suit up completely -  get buckled into the car -  then have to extricate him or herself in under 20 seconds.  Those door bars up around the shoulder and angling down look like the might slow down egress -  but I can't tell! 

Carl J
A little more has happened. Gary has decided to brace the central hoop of the roll cage with  bars crossing in the middle, he's got this mostly done and has also added in the side intrusion bars. These run from just under the lower edge of the side window down to the bottom of the front leg of the cage. He is also thinking of adding another brace from where the side intrusion bar joins the central hoop up to the bar above the side window. The interior already looks like an explosion in a spaghetti factory but it will be strong.

I've been talking to a local Jag guy who is helping us out with engine building contacts. He is trying to get hold of a guy who adapts Jag V12's for aero use. We want to talk to him as he has a great deal of experience with blown/turbo V12's + bored/stroked V12's. If anyone wants to add any advice regarding the best way to go with modification to Jag V12's - feel free.

Gary has also managed to find that the rear bumper off a VT Commodore?? works extremely well as a front air dam. You guys might be more familiar with this as a Pontiac GTO rear bar (the aussie Commodore 2 door adapted by Pontiac as their new GTO). Useful things can be found on Commodores!

The drivers seat goes in next.........
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Carl Johansson
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Lynchy
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2007, 07:02:15 PM »

Carl

The car will only be running at Lake Gairdner in Australia unless we win the lottery and are able to bring it over to Bonneville. But that doesn't change the question...

Quote
How do you guys get out of that thing?  If you will be running at Bonneville your driver will have to suit up completely -  get buckled into the car -  then have to extricate him or herself in under 20 seconds

This is the question I asked Gary when he was explaining his desire to add another bar bisecting the side intrusion bar. There is still a large amount of room to get out even if this bar goes in so shouldn't be a problem. We tried entry and exit several times with it in place. I like the idea of a grab handle though so this will probably get included. We will do several trial runs of emergency exits before the car goes down to the Lake. I'll be down at his place in a weeks time so will time him and let you know + maybe a few photo's of the process.

Lynchy
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landracing
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2007, 07:42:41 PM »

Dodge drivers seat is on wrong side.

Jon
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2007, 09:14:32 PM »

Dodge drivers seat is on wrong side.
Jon

.....yeah but the car's on the right side of the world grin grin ....when are we gonna see you again Jon?
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2007, 11:33:31 PM »

Jon

You should know it is on the right side.

Lynchy
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JackD
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2007, 01:09:12 AM »

Dodge drivers seat is on wrong side.

Jon


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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2007, 07:44:21 AM »

Gaz has sent me some photos of the fitting of the right hand wheel tub. He's now got it sussed how to get it in place and how to keep it there. It looks pretty good to me. This car has one of the fattest rear ends I've seen for a while (insert YoMama joke here) the rear quarters bulge out from the base of the side windscreen about 8 inches or so. No good when you're trying to stuff a big tyre in and keep the car low!



Try to imagine the rear clip (blue rectangular tubing) fully sheeted. There won't be much room in the back seat! There will still be room for the fire extinguishers in front of the the tubs behind the central hoop of the rollcage and we might be able to squeeze in a video camera or two! The rear firewall between the cabin and the boot will be pretty small as you can probably see.



Gazza has also fitted a brace underneath the panel below the rear windscreen which will strengthen this area, allow the boot lid to be hinged off it and provide another fixing point for the wheel tubs. I don't think it is in place in this photo though.

One of the criteria of getting the wheel tub in was to hopefully not have much in the way of ledges for salt to build up on. It will happen anyway but we didn't want a large amount of salt building up and sitting there. We wanted the underside of the car to be as easy to clean as possible and as smooth as possible. The lip of the guard may or may not go?? You can also see in this next photo the frame that will be the rear section of the bellypan:



The blue tube at the bottom of the rear quarter is the leading edge of the rear section of the bellypan and it is angled up to the rear of the car (not sure of the angle but it looks right). The tub will have a section added to the bottom to then meet up with this tube. The semicircular inside wall of the tub will also need to be extended down and notched for the diff. Does anyone have any ideas for sheeting beneath the diff under the rear clip?

We are following the Chris Hanlon (Legendary Australian Salt Lake Racer) racecar building methodology of starting at the back and working forward. Once the rear end is completed and sheeted the seat will go in, then the cage will have another bar added tying the front bars together to the firewall.....

We're also in the process of getting new front hubs machined up. This ended up being necessary as the standard hubs didn't have a lot of "meat" left when machined to change the stud pattern from GM to Ford and the studs increased to 5/8". They should be ready soon. Once they are back and the left hand wheel tub goes in the car will become a roller and we can check out the stance.

Thanks
Lynchy
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 12:42:32 AM »

Thought I'd post some more photo's and advise of some progress. The roof flaps we bought have arrived so thanks to Doug Odom for the tip of where to get them. I think they will be useful to have. There was a recent thread about a NASCAR at Bonneville that had a spin and you can see in the photo's that they open and the car stayed on the ground so they appear to have had the desired effect. Here's how we see them going:




The roof of the Jag is quite small in comparison to the size of the flaps so we see two on the roof as they are laid out and we are wondering whether to fit one to the boot lid. We've got the flap spare and it will be easy to fit to the boot so?Huh Any opinions??? We are also still thinking whether to have the flaps open via air pressure (as per NASCAR) or via mechanical means (as per Hooleys Stude)...

The tubs are now almost complete:




There is still a bit of sheetmetal work to be done but they are mostly finished. They took a long time as Gary is a bit of a perfectionist and put a lot of effort into them. He wanted to brace them so took several pieces of angle, notched them every inch, bent it to fit over the tub, then welded the notches up and ground them smooth. They look easy but took a hell of a lot of time. Dr Goggles had said that he thought at times it would have been easier to build his car from a billet of metal, I replied that we've ground ours out of a lump of weld.

The NASCAR thread also went into tyre width and how narrow is best. Since we have already got wide tyres I was hoping for an explanation. Do wide tyres have a tendency to push the car sideways when the wall of air gets hard to push?? I understand the theory of contact patch in narrow Vs Wide tyres but wondered at the hint of spins being caused by wide tyres.

Another area that is well underway is the firebottle mounts. The car will use 4 x 10kg "Coldfire" bottles mounted to the rollcage in front of the tubs. Here are a few shots:





Where there is red tape around the taxi bar there will be a top mount for the bottles. We've also been advised to make another strap that will hold the bottles in case the worst happens, the car flips, and the bottles try to exit out the top of the brackets. There isn't any spare room around these once the tubs are done and a box is made up around the four link connectors.

Another idea is to build tubes into the car next to the rollcage with jack stands contained within them so that when we are in the pits and need to work on the car we jack it up via the pushbar at the back and drop the stands by removing a pin from the outer tube. The worry is retaining them when the car is in flight, but if we pin/bolt them correctly this should be OK. The car has two jack points located in the front of the sills to get the front up, so two more stands would be built in up front. The car will have only a bit more than an inch ground clearance tapering up at the rear.

The only other consideration is to fit a mascot



It probably won't slow it down too much!

Regards
Lynchy
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