Landracing Forum Home
October 23, 2017, 03:43:02 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: SpeedWeek 2017 - the event!  (Read 30867 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
thundersalt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: orangevale, ca
Posts: 860



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #300 on: August 31, 2017, 10:31:38 AM »

One thing to remember is that after that massive rain storm on the Wednesday before Speed Week in 2014, a whole bunch of dirt and silt washed down from the mountains north of the salt.  When we went out there to pick everything up, course 1 and the pits were all buried in what was more a less now a giant wash boarded creek bed.  Unless all that dirt managed to magically percolate its way down below the original salt surface, I'd wager a guess that the thin salt we're seeing in the pits is actually new salt growth post-2014 and is on top of the creek bed.  That's encouraging because that's actually a measurable amount of growth but it's on top of a bunch of dirt that's on top of the rest of the good salt.  It's like a massive dirt/salt lasagna when what we want is a dirt/muck pie with a nice thick salt crust on top.  I don't think there's a way for us to fix that other than to wait until it does it on it's own and who knows how long that'll take.
   
Re: SpeedWeek 2017 - the event!
Reply #254 on: August 24, 2017, 12:44:34 PM
Reply with quoteQuote  Modify messageModify  Remove messageRemove 
Road grade it Oct/Nov and let mother nature and next springs laydown do its job. I believe it's the mud between the salt thats making it rough.
Logged

916 AA/GRMR 
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean
kiwi belly tank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 166
Location: Lava Hot Springs Idaho
Posts: 2221




Ignore
« Reply #301 on: August 31, 2017, 02:50:03 PM »

Your theories are kinda true-ish but you seem to forget that I've probed down more than 3ft every half mile in a straight line from lands end towards floating mt for more than 8 miles & there is only a small area that has anything other than brine dirt (mud) under the thin salt crust & that is the crystalline growth section that is either shrinking or moving. I didn't find it where it had been the last two years' it's just not there anymore! If you bore a hole in it, it's barely "one inch thick" then you are back into the brine dirt to at least 3ft again.

John Okaly B/BFS #990 is donating a GPS unit to help me plot an accurate location & size on this thing & I plan to go back down before the weather rolls in. If anybody is interested in joining me, send me a pm.

Last year Brenda Bowen said she was taking a drill rig out there to take core samples, did anybody ever see any info from that??
 
 Sid.
Logged
dw230
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: So Cal & Impound, UT
Posts: 3036





Ignore
« Reply #302 on: August 31, 2017, 05:45:38 PM »

I saw the bore rig and core samples at their motor home(base station) located 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the end of the road. No reports to my knowledge.

DW
Logged

White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.
kiwi belly tank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 166
Location: Lava Hot Springs Idaho
Posts: 2221




Ignore
« Reply #303 on: August 31, 2017, 06:22:50 PM »

When did that actually happen Dan?
  Sid.
Logged
dw230
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: So Cal & Impound, UT
Posts: 3036





Ignore
« Reply #304 on: September 01, 2017, 01:12:40 PM »

Memory not too good anymore, at a Shoot Out maybe 2013, closer to 2016.

DW
Logged

White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.
USFRAMONTE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: West Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 568





Ignore
« Reply #305 on: September 02, 2017, 12:41:33 PM »

Last year Brenda Bowen said she was taking a drill rig out there to take core samples, did anybody ever see any info from that??
 
 Sid.
[/quote]
Sid,
Dr. Bowen was on the salt with the drill rig taking the core samples just prior to World of Speed last year.  I had a chance to speak with her while I was dragging our courses.
They went to the same sites that one of the past studies had used to take core samples, so they could have cores from the same areas to compare. The trailer for the drill rig had a hole cut in the deck so they could leave the rig on the trailer to take their samples. This helped speed up the process. This was taken just off the Speedweek course #3 about 2 1/2 miles from the starting line. If you can zoom in on the second photo you can barely see the 1/4" of salt that forms the top layer of the salt surface. Dr. Bowen's remark to me was that I had better be careful grooming as there is not much salt on the surface. My response was,"That is what we have been trying to tell everyone for years, the salt is disappearing".
They did take some cores from inside the salduro loop and the salt there, if I remember correctly, was between 6 and 8 inches deep.


* Drilling Rig.jpg (339.23 KB, 2016x1134 - viewed 130 times.)
Logged
USFRAMONTE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: West Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 568





Ignore
« Reply #306 on: September 02, 2017, 12:44:16 PM »

This shows the core taken from that area. If you can enlarge it, you will see the 1/4" of salt in the box that is the top layer of salt. It was so thin that it fell off of the core itself.


* Core Sample.jpg (458.06 KB, 1134x2016 - viewed 187 times.)
Logged
USFRAMONTE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: West Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 568





Ignore
« Reply #307 on: September 02, 2017, 12:46:47 PM »

It has been so long since I attached photos that I am making all sorts of mistakes here, sorry about that. By enlarging the photo of the core sample, you can see the larger crystals of salt that are dispersed throughout the mud layers.
Logged
USFRAMONTE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: West Bountiful, Utah
Posts: 568





Ignore
« Reply #308 on: September 02, 2017, 12:52:16 PM »

After the cores were removed from the drill, they were placed into the cardboard box with a plastic liner and marked. These students would then perform a series of tests, I did not find out exactly what kind of tests, and then the boxes were loaded into a vehicle and eventually taken back to the university for further evaluation.
I do know that they were unable to get to some of the core locations from the previous study, because the salt crust was too thin and would not support the weight of the truck, trailer and rig.


* Students Testing.jpg (433.47 KB, 1612x907 - viewed 106 times.)
Logged
sofadriver
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 66
Location: tacoma, wa
Posts: 485





Ignore
« Reply #309 on: September 02, 2017, 08:45:35 PM »

....... then the boxes were loaded into a vehicle and eventually taken back to the university for further evaluation.

"further evaluation"? Seriously?  angry
Logged

Mike in Tacoma

"aww, what the hell - let's just do it".............

100cc APS/G #833
Tom Burkland
New folks

Offline Offline

Posts: 8




Ignore
« Reply #310 on: September 02, 2017, 11:32:43 PM »

All of Dr. Brenda Bowen's core samples were drilled in fall of 2016. It should also be noted that NOT A SINGLE ONE was drilled on the south side of I-80, so much for any kind of full scientific study of salt inside a valid control volume! Pretty hard to have an inventory of the salt if the primary consumer has relocated a very large percentage of it outside the study area. It may be that the only real study required to determine where all of this salt is going is to look to the south at those tall white piles of granular material.
It is interesting that BLM and Intrepid Potash folks all claim "mass balance" with the return of either 550,000 or 600,000 tons of "waste salt". BLM has advertised the 600,000 figure, Intrepid officially claimed the 550,000 in the Speedweek program, allegedly these figures come from the same instrumentation that records salinity and water flow in the return ditch. I'll leave it to you to decide if either figure makes sense based on physical observation of the track surfaces.
In terms of "mass balance" the BLM uses the claimed mineral removal amount as compared to the returned tonnage. In recent years the Intrepid mineral extraction process has moved away from the traditional surface brine pumped away in collection ditches to deep wells drilled on Intrepid property south of I-80. These mineral quantities are pulled through private property and are not subject to BLM monitoring or royalty payments. Hence the BLM statements that return salt tonnage has exceeded removal. It should be pretty obvious to anyone that has poured any quantity of water onto the salt flats that the dense cemented halite surface dissolves in the water, and that this brine then percolates into the layers below the salt. The current Intrepid wells are then able to recover the brine from the porous sponge like depths below the salt, generating a subsurface flow to the south carrying the minerals to the evaporation basins without lease terms being applied. The various surface barriers have little impact on surface brine when it can flow freely under I-80, Central Pacific Rail, and Highway 40 carrying the minerals dissolved in the water. The water levels and operation of the Intrepid evaporation ponds effectively shelters them from mineral removal by the natural rainfall and surface water coming in from adjacent mountain ranges. The race track surfaces north of I-80 have received large rainfall over the past few years, including huge amounts of collected water flow off the Silver Island Mountains and areas north of the salt flats. All of this water flow onto the salt has increased the amount of dissolved minerals available in the subsurface aquifers, which clearly reduces the available salt to form a usable racing surface.
There were numerous comments from racers this summer suggesting that the salt will get better if left alone. There are two major fallacies in this statement that we should recognize. First is the assumption that there is some natural process that will bring the salt back over time. This is not the case as there is no natural cycle that will move salt from the evaporation ponds south of I-80 back to the race track surface. The only way this salt movement is going to happen is if some industrial scale process like the one operated by Kaiser, Riley, and Intrepid have operated for the last 50 years is implemented. This condition has been created by man made activities, and it will only be corrected by man made actions. Second is the assumption that land speed racing is contributing any significant damage to the salt surface. The amount of salt transported off the surface by our vehicles and shoes is minuscule in comparison to the massive quantities consumed by the mineral leases.
Study the chemical composition of the base minerals in the Bonneville basin, understand the sales quantities leaving the Wendover plant, and make your own comparison to see what "mass balance" is being achieved. I think you will find the return tonnages are small fractions of what is being removed to support the potash and magnesium chloride refining and sales.           
Logged
salt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 61
Location: Santa Barbara, Calif.
Posts: 197


EMD2CLM - B2CLM




Ignore
« Reply #311 on: September 03, 2017, 02:27:55 AM »


My crystal ball tells me that there's going to be a marked increase in U.S. to  Bolivia tourism in the next few years.

Willi
Kraut Bros.
Logged

Who Has More Fun?
fordboy628
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Koozebane
Posts: 1835


GONE FISHIN' . . .




Ignore
« Reply #312 on: September 03, 2017, 07:02:13 AM »

All of Dr. Brenda Bowen's core samples were drilled in fall of 2016. It should also be noted that NOT A SINGLE ONE was drilled on the south side of I-80, so much for any kind of full scientific study of salt inside a valid control volume! Pretty hard to have an inventory of the salt if the primary consumer has relocated a very large percentage of it outside the study area. It may be that the only real study required to determine where all of this salt is going is to look to the south at those tall white piles of granular material.

There were numerous comments from racers this summer suggesting that the salt will get better if left alone. There are two major fallacies in this statement that we should recognize. First is the assumption that there is some natural process that will bring the salt back over time. This is not the case as there is no natural cycle that will move salt from the evaporation ponds south of I-80 back to the race track surface. The only way this salt movement is going to happen is if some industrial scale process like the one operated by Kaiser, Riley, and Intrepid have operated for the last 50 years is implemented. This condition has been created by man made activities, and it will only be corrected by man made actions. Second is the assumption that land speed racing is contributing any significant damage to the salt surface. The amount of salt transported off the surface by our vehicles and shoes is minuscule in comparison to the massive quantities consumed by the mineral leases.

Study the chemical composition of the base minerals in the Bonneville basin, understand the sales quantities leaving the Wendover plant, and make your own comparison to see what "mass balance" is being achieved. I think you will find the return tonnages are small fractions of what is being removed to support the potash and magnesium chloride refining and sales.           

Extraction is extraction is extraction . . . . . . .

The salt situation is equivalent to the big lumber companies saying:  Well, we are just doing what our contract allows.  BUT, even though our contract does not require it, we planted seedlings to replace the trees.

 Dead Horse Dead Horse Dead Horse
Logged

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
ronnieroadster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Location: Connecticut
Posts: 534





Ignore
« Reply #313 on: September 03, 2017, 09:40:08 AM »

 Tom Burkland
 THANK YOU for your post its outstanding.
     I'm one who would like to see future generations of my family have the opportunity to drive my race car and challenge my records and others on the Bonneville salt flats if things continue the way they are that will never happen! I'm not sending the car out of this country it will become a museum piece or be sold for parts.
My hope is that never happens and they will get the opertunity to race like I have.
 RETURN THE SALT
 Ronnieroadster
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 09:42:10 AM by ronnieroadster » Logged

Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 186.946
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 192.448
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
SPARKY
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 75
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6236




« Reply #314 on: September 03, 2017, 10:16:12 AM »

Thanks Tom B. and RR---Restore to Preserve   cheers cheers cheers  Where is the Serria Club when we need them   grin
Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page October 06, 2017, 05:38:07 AM