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Author Topic: Won't stay in gear  (Read 1187 times)
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sdroadster
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« on: July 27, 2017, 10:59:04 AM »

Well it appears we're not going to Bonneville. The transmission in the Studebaker won't stay in gear. It has done this with 2 Muncie transmissions, 2 driveshafts, 2 differentials, 2 clutches, a new pilot bearing. I dialed in the scattershield to nearly zero. I also had the flywheel and pressure plate balanced as an assembly. It has a new old stock Hurst shifter that I have adjusted 10 times. It will pop out of 1st gear under acceleration at about 6600 rpm. We ran it up in 2nd, then after shifting to 3rd it popped out. It did this with a used Muncie, so I had the Muncie re-built. It still popped out. Over the winter I purchased a new Autogear Muncie knock off. We ran the car on a chassis dyno prior to the May El Mirage, and it popped out of 1st gear. The car shifts fine when it's on jack stands, or when the dyno isn't loaded. As soon as there is torque (effort) introduced the trans popps out of gear. The Studebaker is mounted on a Chevy S-10 chassis, that  has been partially boxed, and is full of crossmembers. The engine has solid front motor mounts, and now has rubber in the rear based on the transmission manufactures suggestion. I should also say the rear end pretty much sits on the rubber snubbers. It has been that way for several years. It also has a pinion snubber, and the pinion angle is only a couple of degrees.  This has been such a good car. After Bonneville last year my son drove the car at El Mirage in September and went 181. In October this started happening. I did a frame off disassembly of the car last winter, and inspected every inch of the frame. I cleaned everything up, used all grade 8 hardware, and re-assembled. My efforts didn't cure the problem... Any ideas would be welcome. Again this could be torque induced.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 07:56:35 PM by sdroadster » Logged
TheBaron
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 11:22:45 AM »

Looks like you need to have all the engagement "Dogs" undercut....

 I've seen this many times over the years in both Bike, Car, and diesel truck trannys ....

Once the torque reaches a certain  level,,, straight cut dogs can't handle the torque and or vibration,,, and they just slide apart,,

Good luck with the issue and let us know how it turns out....

Robert
Baron Race Team
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jdincau
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 11:25:59 AM »

I had a problem with my B-W super T-10 popping out of gear in high. The problem turned out to be miss aligned bolt holes on the bell housing. Several times I had the engine out and dialed in the trans register but I was doing it with just the dowel pins and a couple of finger tight bolts. This last time I re checked the run out after installing ALL of the bolts and found it to be out of spec. Drilling all the mounting bolts 1/32 oversize cured the problem. It doesn't help that the dowel pin holes in the block are .621 and the holes in the Lakewood housing are .625.
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John Burk
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 07:57:05 PM »

Being that 1st and 3rd are a problem could it be insufficient shifter travel in that direction . When disconnected do the shift rods have over-travel in all gears .
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jl222
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 08:45:23 PM »

I had a problem with my B-W super T-10 popping out of gear in high. The problem turned out to be miss aligned bolt holes on the bell housing. Several times I had the engine out and dialed in the trans register but I was doing it with just the dowel pins and a couple of finger tight bolts. This last time I re checked the run out after installing ALL of the bolts and found it to be out of spec. Drilling all the mounting bolts 1/32 oversize cured the problem. It doesn't help that the dowel pin holes in the block are .621 and the holes in the Lakewood housing are .625.

  Yeah... different size holes, read this this morning and was mounting the Lakewood housing and noticed all the punch marks around hole to make smaller to dial in. Then we drilled 3/16 holes for dowel pins, through housing
and into mid plate and block so we don't have to check every time.

                    jl222
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n49racer
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 09:46:37 PM »

Do you have the pull in shift collars. We had the problem with our Muncie  call Paul at 5speeds.com in Florida. Fixed ours.

Ted
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n49racer
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 09:53:27 PM »

I should elaborate. There are 2 different shift collars that can be used in the Muncie. In one the splines are straight. In the other the spline part that contacts the teeth on the gear are made wedge shaped so they pull the shift collar into gear and hold it. Paul at 5speeds supplied mine and fixed the problem.

Ted
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Jack Gifford
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 12:23:52 AM »

Checking bellhousing alignment- besides centering, have you checked that the trans mounting face is parallel to the rear block face (set indicator to run against face)? Thiis is just as important as being centered.

Having said that- frankly, Reply #3 might be the culprit.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 12:26:41 AM by Jack Gifford » Logged

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Mr. Schimstock
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 11:46:01 AM »

I'll back up the shifter throw idea.  I've seen it happen.  If a rod got bent a little it will throw it off.  It's an easy check.
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sdroadster
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 02:20:26 PM »

Thanks guys. I'm at my wits end. I have contacted Auto Gear (again) regarding the Torque Lock Sliders, I have checked the trans face and block for parallel with a depth mike. And, I will check the shifter rods for full engagement. The shifter stops are backed off so I would hope everything is getting full travel. Thanks, and keep the information coming!
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 09:09:15 PM »

Being that 1st and 3rd are a problem could it be insufficient shifter travel in that direction . When disconnected do the shift rods have over-travel in all gears .

I'm more in line with John on this, put it in gear then pull the linkage to make sure it is in full detent.
This might sound like a weird question but I never assume,... the shifter IS bolted to the trans & not the chassis right?
  Sid.
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sdroadster
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 09:42:54 AM »

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to lay under the car some more today. I've taken the stops on the shifter completely out of the way, perhaps today I will remove them. I'll check the linkage again. I hope to go to a chassis dyno next week in a last attempt prior to Bonneville. I talked to a man last night who was recommended by Autogear  for his ability to work on these transmissions. We talked about Torque Lock Sliders some what. He is a road racer, and said he never uses them, because they make the trans hard to shift. I'm not entirely convinced...
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Ron Gibson
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 10:20:07 AM »

Are the shift levers on the side the ones that go with the shifter? I've seen mis-matches of components where the lever on the side was too long for the available throw of the shifter.
I would remove the shift rods, put the thans in gear at full detent, then see if the rods will slide into the levers with no resistance and even a little extra  movement for slack.

Ron
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sdroadster
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 01:50:10 PM »

Thanks Ron, I'll do that today.
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