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Author Topic: Motorcycle jetting for alcohol  (Read 3051 times)
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Sequim Jim
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2017, 06:46:02 AM »

Smitty,
If I understand you correctly. I can run C12 or C16 at 15 lbs of boost without changing my timing. I have an icebox that I planned to run either dry ice or an ice/glycol mix. My wife is mailing in my entry fee this week and I need to decide if I will enter as a MPS-BG or MPS-BF.
I really appreciate your help!!!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 07:12:46 AM by Sequim Jim » Logged

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Jim
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 08:56:21 AM »

Yes, you should be able to  run C-16 (116 octane or higher if available) race gas very easily if the ECU has knock sensing/auto-retard at 12-15 psi boost levels.

If the ECU doesn't have Knock sensing then you will have to "tread lightly"... Start at 8-10 psi, 11:1 fuel ratio, and max boost only at high rpm and see what is what.

Methanol would provide a lot more cooling of the fuel-air mixture, the internal combustion chamber parts, and would yield 10%+ more HP at the crank,,,But it is a lot more trouble and work to swap from gasoline and tricky toget things just right. If you get it the least bit wrong, your pistons will fail...

Especially If you are running carbs,  I'd use race gas to sort out the turbo system and swap over at later date to methanol,,,,,, one can of worms at a time is best...

Are you running SCTA , AMA, or both???

Smitty
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maj
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 03:45:55 PM »

How are your wiring skills Jim ? pretty sure you could put a Powercommander with  ign module from a later injected R1 on the ignition only and run a 0-5v from a map sensor rather than tps to get some sort of ign control

I understand the tall bit and fit on the bike , we move the pegs back with spacers on the 750 so it is both easier to get the back flat and room for elbows and knees without clashing
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 04:57:42 PM »

You can change class at registration without fee the first time.  That is -- it won't cost you to change from what you write down to what you run.

I think...
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 06:20:04 PM »

You're right.

When you get your Registration Package while waiting for Inspection, you should review it (including the respective Engine and Body Codes) and make sure it's right.  And -- in case something has changed since you sent in your Entry (or you want to change it) -- now's the time, before Inspection, to do it.

Entering without the correct Engine and Body Codes will negate all runs before you figure that out.
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Sequim Jim
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2017, 07:57:41 AM »

How are your wiring skills Jim ? pretty sure you could put a Powercommander with  ign module from a later injected R1 on the ignition only and run a 0-5v from a map sensor rather than tps to get some sort of ign control

I understand the tall bit and fit on the bike , we move the pegs back with spacers on the 750 so it is both easier to get the back flat and room for elbows and knees without clashing

My wiring skills are good, but it sounds like I'm back to square one trying to retard my timing. I sent emails to Power Commander and MSD trying to find a solution. The last few years have been frustrating trying to resolve the timing issue.
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Jim
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2017, 08:49:38 AM »

Hi Jim,,,

If your OEM Ignition has spark knock sensing then it will automatically pull two degrees of spark advance at a time till the knock goes away....

I had this on a Yamaha factory turbo Seca from the early '80s......Only way it would survive running only 91 octane....

You probably don't need anything else if it is there....

I'd check the parts catalog of that bike for a knock transducer,  check with R1 chat rooms online,  and /or call Yamaha North America customer service...

You may be trying to fix a problem that Yamaha has already dealt with.....

Smitty
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RansomT
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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2017, 09:04:14 AM »

Just a thought:  have you checked with Factory Pro?   I know they have made (in the past) timing plates to move the sensor for several bikes. 
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maj
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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2017, 03:52:29 PM »

Powercommander etc probably will not be of help, if its not plug into original fitment there usually not interested

But as your electronic ign on the carb bike is similar in operation to the ignition side of the efi bike several yrs later the same type of intercept and adjust technology should work , you will be hardwiring , and do you have 2 coils with leeds rather than 4 stick coils 
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maj
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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2017, 03:58:56 PM »

One of my mates has turbo'd several R1s , EFI models, he once commented that the 5 valve head was not as easy to get to survive as other bikes he had done (Brett at Pace motorsports in Western Australia ), take small steps
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Sequim Jim
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2017, 07:14:36 AM »

I sent Factory Pro an email requesting information about their timing stars. It was suggested that I try a Dynatek Darc-2 cdi box and the universal kit. Power Commander stated they didn't have anything that would work for me. MGD told me they have a box that might work if I buy their coils and cdi for $1400 and build my own program.

I hope I don't get Facebook beat up for this but I contacted Dave at Hurricane Performance for advice. He supplied my parts and build advice. Dave suggested that I start around 15 lbs of boost on Q16 fuel and keep on AFR ratio to 10.8 to 11.2. Dave said I could go to 35 lbs of boost on VP Import without changing timing. Based on this I sent an email to Tom Henriott of VP Fuel (Texas) and told him about my problem. He agreed and suggested an AFR of 11.3 to 11.5. Any thoughts?

If I run Q16 or Import does that put me in the Blown Fuel class?

I currently don't have a crew, can I leave that blank on my entry form until I find a crew?
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Jim
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2017, 12:21:18 PM »

I'll say it straight up,,,, I don't think you can run more than a few seconds over 15 lb of boost without some serious thermal issues with your. 10:1 static CR ...

Diesel compression ratios run around 18 to 21 to 1  and diesel fuel is a lot more stable than gasoline...

You might be very surprise just how much power is produced at 8 to 10 lb of boost if the turbo is well matched to the motor (meaning low backpressure),,, it is all about thru putting maximum  CFM of air and the air being as dense (oxygen bearing)as practical ...

Q16 is oxygenated and will put you in the fuel class,, if you run Gasoline at Bonneville you have to use ERC brand gas from the onsite fuel truck...Fuel class and you can bring your own gas/fuel...

Dave is right on about 10.8 to 11.2 A/F ratio....

You can add the crew name when you get there...

Get some good earplugs and wear them,,,you just might need them should  the motor go BOOM at 35 lb of boost..

Smitty



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maj
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2017, 03:58:08 PM »

ARC2 is a good option its not exactly mappable but will pull about 10 deg timing at a set point  and has a spark you can weld with , so rich A/F is not the problem it may be for weaker ign systems
we used one on the  last yr , set the switch point to 20 psi ,  running 11.2-11.6 
wastegate settings didn't work out the same at BMST as on the dyno and we ran 19 psi and hurt it at the end of the timed mile 
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Sequim Jim
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2017, 10:19:41 PM »

I'll say it straight up,,,, I don't think you can run more than a few seconds over 15 lb of boost without some serious thermal issues with your. 10:1 static CR ...

Diesel compression ratios run around 18 to 21 to 1  and diesel fuel is a lot more stable than gasoline...

You might be very surprise just how much power is produced at 8 to 10 lb of boost if the turbo is well matched to the motor (meaning low backpressure),,, it is all about thru putting maximum  CFM of air and the air being as dense (oxygen bearing)as practical ...

Q16 is oxygenated and will put you in the fuel class,, if you run Gasoline at Bonneville you have to use ERC brand gas from the onsite fuel truck...Fuel class and you can bring your own gas/fuel...

Dave is right on about 10.8 to 11.2 A/F ratio....

You can add the crew name when you get there...

Get some good earplugs and wear them,,,you just might need them should  the motor go BOOM at 35 lb of boost..

Smitty




My goal isn't 35 lbs of boost. I would be happy at a solid 15 to 20 lbs of boost. I need reliability and smoothness. From there I think I can ride thru the problems of traction and sidewind.
BTW, I have been riding soft and loose gravel roads in rural farmland for decades on Z1s, Ninjas, FJRs, R1s, etc, at over 100 mph. If my engine runs good I will stay up. Any idiot knows a coughing engine will KILL you.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:32:31 PM by Sequim Jim » Logged

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Jim
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