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Author Topic: 200MPH Vintage Class Bike Build  (Read 19516 times)
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astek
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« on: December 22, 2016, 04:22:51 AM »

I'm building a new bike aiming for the first 200+ record in the vintage class. I'm going to use an early 50's pre unit Triumph motor with a iron cylinder head "650 APS-VF".

The engine parts


Frame






Will post more pictures when I'm done with the frame.
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 05:42:27 AM »

This will be a thread to follow! cool
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saltwheels262
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 09:09:52 AM »

Very interesting already.

Bf262
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 11:05:39 AM »

Looking good, Alp!

O2B44 again!

Tom
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panic
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 02:52:29 PM »

Go for it!
VF = methanol + nitrous?
I assume you have a 1954-55 case set for the larger rods?
How much power do you think it will take?
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rouse
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 03:09:59 PM »

With the right body work I can see you getting that extra 25MPH.

Good looking work so far.

Rouse
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Johnnie Rouse
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 03:20:05 PM »

Thank you all.

Go for it!
VF = methanol + nitrous?
I assume you have a 1954-55 case set for the larger rods?
How much power do you think it will take?

Panic, I'm ruining nitro and yes big bearing timing side but it still needs to be modified to fit the beefy alloy rods.
I believe with a relatively low co (for a APS) I need 90-100hp to reach 201MPH

Do you guys have any co numbers for "APS" body motorcycles? Just to have an idea.
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2016, 03:46:55 PM »

Alp,
I know that your build will be great to watch. I did run some numbers using 200 mph for the speed and 100 hp for the aero hp. I come up with a CdA (Cd x Area) of 1.84. If you take what you think your frontal area will be in square feet and divide that into 1.84 you will get what the Cd should be. An example would be if your frontal area was 4 ft square your required Cd would be .458 which is a number that could be attainable with a good fairing. Of course I am assuming that all of your HP is going to overcome aero drag which is not the real case as you have chain friction which can easily be 5-8%, rolling friction etc which can all easily use up 15-25% of your 100 HP. If the number was 20% then the Cd would need to be about .37 which I still think you could do. My real question is do you think you can make an iron head engine make 100 HP for 5 miles?? That is a lot of heat that has to be taken care of. Running methanol should help,

Rex
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astek
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 05:44:50 PM »

Alp,
I know that your build will be great to watch. I did run some numbers using 200 mph for the speed and 100 hp for the aero hp. I come up with a CdA (Cd x Area) of 1.84. If you take what you think your frontal area will be in square feet and divide that into 1.84 you will get what the Cd should be. An example would be if your frontal area was 4 ft square your required Cd would be .458 which is a number that could be attainable with a good fairing. Of course I am assuming that all of your HP is going to overcome aero drag which is not the real case as you have chain friction which can easily be 5-8%, rolling friction etc which can all easily use up 15-25% of your 100 HP. If the number was 20% then the Cd would need to be about .37 which I still think you could do. My real question is do you think you can make an iron head engine make 100 HP for 5 miles?? That is a lot of heat that has to be taken care of. Running methanol should help,

Rex

Great info! Thank you Rex.
The long chain is something I do not like and there is not much I can do about it. I've been working on the design of the APS fairing for a long time, the sitting ergonomics, side cut off, is something never done before, I think it will make a difference in aero.
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tortoise
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2016, 07:56:36 PM »

. . . the sitting ergonomics, side cut off, is something never done before, I think it will make a difference in aero.
Do you have a sketch of this?
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Frank06
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 09:46:14 AM »

Maybe I misunderstood but I don't think 100 hp will get you anywhere close to 200 mph...  this will be an interesting build to watch, looking great so far!
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2016, 10:52:39 AM »

For good aero ideas -- look at Ralph Hudson's bike.  266 in the dirt with a 750 blown motor?  That takes some good stuff.  I know that he and his bike spent some time with Layne and Tom at the Darko Wind Tunnel -- and dang, 266 shows something pretty good. . . cheers
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2016, 06:48:28 PM »

Alp,
In 2013 I went 143 mph with 45 hp.  My spread sheet predicted I would need 52 hp to go 150 but I did it with 50 hp.  It predicts that I will need 123 hp to go 200 mph with my current CdA.  My spreadsheet is based on the principle that you need to cube your increase in hp to double your speed.  It's pretty simple, really.  If you want to increase your speed by 200/156 (your current record)=1.282, you will need the cube of this multiplier to attain 200 mph.  So 1.28^3=2.1 times your current hp with your current CdA.  Of course, with streamlining you should be able to cut your drag significantly. You be the judge.
Tom
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 07:41:29 PM »

In the basic HP required to go fast (BHP= Cd x Frontal area x (speed to the third power)/146600) Frontal area is in sq. feet and speed is in MPH. The relation ship between HP and CdA is equal, that is 50% more Hp is the same as 50% less CdA. I have always felt there are three types of guys at Bonneville, motor guys that just keep throwing HP at it, aero guys that go faster by better aero and then there are the "Really Fast Guys" they do both!!!

Rex
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TheBaron
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 07:47:07 PM »

Alp,,,  I ran the numbers and you will need either:

4 sq.-ft of frontal area with a Cd of .380 and 100 hp will get you 200 mph

or

3.8 sq-ft of frontal area with a Cd  of .400  and 100 hp gets you to 200 mph...

You build really small tight bikes and I'll bet on you getting there..

Robert Smith
The Baron Race Team
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