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Author Topic: Motorcycle suggestion - AGAIN  (Read 5107 times)
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edinlr
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« on: November 16, 2016, 09:57:40 PM »

As you guys are pondering over rules, classes, changes, etc, please consider adding a twin class for motorcycles.  Virtually every displacement from the 250s on up has twins that may or may not be competitive in the G/F/BG or BF classes.  I know that the car guys say there are too many bike classes already, but this might be another entry point for racers, shops and maybe a factory to bring their bikes out there.  A $50,000 Ducati can't do squat in any of the P, M, or MPS classes against the existing fours, but should do very well against the Honda, Suzuki, Aprilia, Triumph, Kawasaki, and Indian twins.  This could help open up a new market and most will run on the shorter tracks, will usually start, and don't make ruts in the salt.  Please consider this might be a good way to attract new and younger riders to our sport.
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Stainless1
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 10:40:46 AM »

Before Stan jumps in here, do you think we should have classes for different colors as well?  rolleyes

If you want to race competitively, race the bike you think will set a record,  not the bike you have. There are plenty of paved events that support run whatcha brung racing. 

If you want to set a record on the salt, build within the rules instead of asking for a class that fits your vehicle.  wink
 Dead Horse  Dead Horse  Dead Horse
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 12:46:30 PM »

Before you suggest rule changes to the SCTA read the last two paragraphs on page 1 of your rule book. The time frame for 2017 rules changes is long past.

DW
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 09:01:25 PM »

The FIM has classes for singles, twins, and multis.  It gives us guys who are cylinder deficient a place to race competitively.
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mergatroyd
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 12:05:03 AM »

The way I see it... Ducatis are as competitive within the rules of M as anything else (my learning experience notwithstanding). You might need a blower, or some funny fuel... but even the "event gas" is funny fuel to a pump gas kind of guy.

As I understand it, the P rules don't preclude taking advantage of the "funny" event gas... but those kind of mods are outside my budget.
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rouse
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2016, 11:09:17 AM »

Whoa; now we are picking on the event gas?

What's wrong with the event gas, you choose the octane to run, and the content of that grade is know by the vendor for testing, so again what's wrong with that?

Rouse
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mergatroyd
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 11:43:29 AM »

I'm not picking on it, I'm saying it has enhanced capabilities from what a street production motorcycle is expecting. ERC110K is way different from a RON/MON calculated 91 octane purchased at a Shell station.

If a racer in a P class is not taking advantage of that, they are leaving at least some theoretical potential on the table.

For the record, I am against dividing classes by # of cylinders.  Dead Horse I didn't pick my build strategy because it's easier...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 12:44:53 PM by mergatroyd » Logged

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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 12:56:54 PM »

I would be danged surprised if there are racers running in Production (SCTA/USFRA, bikes) that DON'T take advantage - or at least wish they could afford to do so - of the various fuels that Rick has available at the track fuel station -- fuels that are 100% "legal" for "gas" and "production" classes.

ERC is a valuable resource for us at the Salt, and it/Rick Gold is just another bit of help that's out there if you look for it.

PS:  I know it's not germane, but who's the fuel supplier for BMST?
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rouse
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 01:56:16 PM »

If your engine is not setup to run the Higher Octane you may even slow it down.

Rick Gold over at the ERC fuel truck is an excellent resource for us racers to use in helping select the proper Octane for your engine build.

I still remember going over to Rick my first time a Bonneville and ask his advise as to what gas to run in my P-PP bike. The first thing he did was ask questions about the engine ie. compression, cam, plugs, and so forth, and then selected the proper Gas for the build.
One of the questions was what gas I tested with, and when I told him, he said he wouldn't run that SH^T in his lawnmower huh  Yes he is a little blunt, but we did run good with his gasoline.

Rouse
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Johnnie Rouse
Bike 4680 P-PP2000 SCTA record 153.325    A-PF3000 177.920
                              Texas Mile 152.518
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fordboy628
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 02:35:53 PM »

If anyone is out there still thinking that fuel formulation is not important . . . . . .

I suggest you read this article in Race Engine Technology, issue 96:
•Focus: FUELS - The fuels used by race engines have arguably one of the greatest influences on their performance. David Cooper explains the factors in their composition.

Sorry, no freebie link.    Magazine is too recent to be free online.

And I just want to add that if you have carb(s) using pump gas with ethanol added, DO NOT let your ride sit with the ethanol fuel in the carb(s).    You will be very unhappy.

 cheers
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Stainless1
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 03:17:12 PM »

Well if you are not running event gas at Bonneville in production or any gas class you are not setting a record, no matter how fast you are going.  You only have to use event gas if you plan the challenge a record, otherwise buy $3 gas at the station and go as fast as you can.
BMST had the ERC truck there for fuel.
Rick advised us to use MUL-B in the 1 liter NA 13.5:1 compression motor... Set 200 MPH Club records in both the bike and car.... we generally follow his advice.

But back to the actual subject of this thread....
 Dead Horse   yep that one
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 03:18:58 PM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 08:32:16 PM »

Hundreds of cylinder pressure tables and graffs have been looked at these last weeks during my virtual builds.  The tuning is done for Bonneville density altitude and checked for much lower Beaverton, Oregon DA.  The latter is done so I make sure the engine will not blow up on the dyno.  The long cams, high rpm, and thin air density at B-ville reduce the demands for octane at that location.  The highest pressures are at low altitude on the dyno near torque peak at full throttle.

We use "clear premium" here in Oregon as low budget race fuel if we cannot afford race gas.  This is unleaded non-ethanol premium.  Typically the summer and winter blends are the same.  You might have that type of gas where you are.  Just run the fuel class and there will be no problem.

The gasohol pump blends are very inconsistent.  Modern engines can do OK on them but older ones often have trouble.  Usually the engine has to be detuned a bit to work with fuels of such variable quality.  We tuned desert racers to run on regular octane Mexican PEMEX in the old days.  They would'a been a lot faster when tuned for race gas, for sure.   
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2016, 03:38:40 PM »

No offense but there are too many motorcycle classes already.  In fact, there are too many motorcycle competitors as it is.  As a car competitor, I'm propose that the SCTA ban motorcycles all together.  I suggest that you start your own motorcycle-only sanctioning body (SSS may like LRDCMTA aka land racing dot com motorcycle timing association) and make classes for all the different types of motor configurations. 

Or just compete in the classes that we already have.
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ronnieroadster
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 04:17:37 PM »

No offense but there are too many motorcycle classes already.  In fact, there are too many motorcycle competitors as it is.  As a car competitor, I'm propose that the SCTA ban motorcycles all together.  I suggest that you start your own motorcycle-only sanctioning body (SSS may like LRDCMTA aka land racing dot com motorcycle timing association) and make classes for all the different types of motor configurations. 

Or just compete in the classes that we already have.


 That's an excellent idea ban them all.  Those of us who have had the lovely experience of a motorcycle competitor cutting the line would love to see bike only events. Many times at runway type events I have personally experienced this a bike racer cutting the line shocked I know their more important than us car guys but gee wiz wait your turn!
 
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 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 186.946
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 192.448
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2016, 04:42:06 PM »

I like the bikes.  (I know, this doesn't sound like me.)

More variety.  And they're usually more ready to run and don't slow down a meet.
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