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Author Topic: Pre-Build Thread (for a friend) Caution - MG content...  (Read 2478 times)
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SteveM
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« on: November 14, 2016, 02:02:27 PM »

One of my friends (Tom), who attended WoS with me this year, has apparently caught a case of Salt Fever.  He and another friend in Omaha have a '74 MG roadster that they are having LSR visions for.

What are the potential classes for a car like this?  As far as my interpretation of the rulebook, the most likely classes I see are GT and MS-based classes (blown or Gas).

Any other Brainstorming ideas? 

I told Tom that when he starts getting "real", that he'd need to start a build thread of his own.

Steve.
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jacksoni
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 03:51:59 PM »

You might suggest they real all 407 pages of Milwaukee Midget's build diary as a starting point.  cool cheers  After that and a few more  cheers cheers They might take another track.  No offense Chris.  shocked Then have at it. As we all know salt fever is a bad disease.
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Jack Iliff
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 07:34:59 PM »

No offense taken, Stainless. 

It would likely depend on which MG he has.

If it's an MGB Roadster, I think he can clearly run GT or Modified Sport, but that would need to be run up the flagpole, and here's why.  There are some peculiar call-outs regarding the B - because it was available as a 4 passenger coupe, aka, the MGB GT - that might cause it to be sent packing over into the coupe classes.  The Porsche 911 is an example of this peculiarity in the rules, as is the Karman Ghia.

My argument in favor of the MGB roadster in GT is that the MGB roadster was released before the MGB GT, and therefore could have legally ran GT before the introduction of the newer MGB GT came along and clouded the issue.

GT opens up a unique engine swap extravaganza for MG, and valid rules arguments could be made that could include anything and everything associated with MG/Rover/Triumph/Leyland/Jaguar/Ford/Coventry Climax - but that's if they want to keep a stock body and run a production class.

To give you an example as to just how crazy it could get, let's look at the Jensen Healey.  One can legally take a 440 Chrysler engine - the stock powerplant in the Jensen Interceptor - and stuff an 8 liter Mopar Wedge between the fenderwells of a car with a 92" wheelbase and be class compliant for a production category, which GT is.  Similarly, the Rover V8 could be used in the MGB OR the MG Midget.

Steve - please have Tom contact me if he needs a tourguide on the road to madness.

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Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 08:25:13 PM »

Steve - quick update for your buddy, Tom.

Have him run down to Barnes and Noble and pick up the December issue of MG Enthusiast Magazine.  There's a short story on the Walker-Chapman MGA BFMS on page 6.

I'd also suggest he dig through and find Udo Horn's Bonneville Bugeye.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3585.0.html

A lot of this is going to depend upon how fast he wants to go or how nutty he wants to get with it.

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2016, 12:25:43 AM »

That's very interesting Chris! The Ford 4.6 Modular V8 engine (Mustang) is powering the new Rover, that makes it legal in your Midget for GT class!
  Sid.
ps If you could get it to fit under a stock hood.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 12:27:19 AM by kiwi belly tank » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 05:14:10 AM »

Steve,

Have your friend heed carefully what Chris has to say about the "MG Experience".    I would say he is the current LSR authority with respect to MG's in the lower GT classes.    And I can only repeat, and reinforce, what Chris has already stated.   To wit:

1/   It is of course, really important to pick a class, (or classes) and have a plan.    Without a plan, any build becomes a "cascading nightmare" . . . . . .     AND, the plan should include some sort of realistic "budget", if just for humor value at the end of the build.

2/   Engine swap.    I personally have 2 decades of experience (on and off) during my career trying to make these 'B' series iron turds into something resembling a high performance engine.    Notice I did not say racing engine.    I consider the MGB engine to be the most ill designed iron lump ever conceived on the British Isles.    Therefore, in my opinion, an engine swap is essential to performance.  What engine, exactly, should be substituted, will depend on what class is chosen and what power output is required to be competitive in that class.    If your friend is insistent on attempting to use the MGB engine, have him contact me first.    I have some good examples of what kind of bhp can be achieved, which is sobering.

 cheers
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 08:37:10 AM by fordboy628 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 08:39:37 AM »

I'm not sure what Steve's friend is going to do, or what he's thinking - a question I still get asked routinely - but getting back to the MGB, in a production category like GT, there are a few things going for it that the Midget lacked.

A factory chin spoiler was used late in the production run, which would be a big help keeping the nose planted. 

Also, the Sebring style headlight covers were available from the factory, which would be huge in slicking up the front end.  Steve, I think Gregg is running similar factory headlight covers on his Rampage.

I might suggest he update to the "Rubber Bumpers" - post 1975 - for better aero.

Factory hardtops were also available, and an MGB Roadster with a factory hardtop sits about 2 1/2" lower than the MGB GT.  The windshield is markedly lower as well.

And it's a lot easier putting a cage into a roadster than a coupe.

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2016, 08:56:50 AM »

Steve - quick update for your buddy, Tom.

Have him run down to Barnes and Noble and pick up the December issue of MG Enthusiast Magazine.  There's a short story on the Walker-Chapman MGA BFMS on page 6.

I'd also suggest he dig through and find Udo Horn's Bonneville Bugeye.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3585.0.html

A lot of this is going to depend upon how fast he wants to go or how nutty he wants to get with it.



If Udo doesn't see this or readily answer, I helped build the BB and can provide some info as well. He has a blown D motor in the works for that car and keeps threatening to install same. Then the issue of who drives it comes up and he looks at me ( I drove in 2010 when we set the G/GMS record). And I go "who, me?Huh??" Gonna have to think about that one.......after many  cheers cheers cheers
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SteveM
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2016, 12:20:25 PM »

All good information!  This is the best place on the whole 'web for sharing advice and experience.   cheers

I am encouraging Tom to join here and start sharing details.

Steve.
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2016, 01:52:59 PM »

You tell him to fill in the location blank on the reg. page so I don't have to place in in Strangulated Testicle, Tennessee or someplace with a goofy name -- okay? huh
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 02:22:56 PM »

Hi guys, this is Alan, the other [and possibly better] half of Steve's friend Tom.  The car is a buddy of mine's, whose wife wants it out of the garage after 11 years.  i have a passion and past of Road Racing, and told my friend i'd take the car from him but it would most likely not resemble stock when i was done with it, as my initial plan was a Road/AutoX car.  BUT, this weekend i had a thought about an LSR car, so i told Tom, and he said he thought the same thing!  meaning: we're both nuts, we both want to waste money and act like children, or all of the above.

i tried to make some sense of the SCTA rulebook ('15), but got lost in technicalities.  From my reading, it looked like the only class this '74 MGB convertible would fit into is the Grand Touring Sport, which i see has a record is set ~ 165mph.  i don't mind speed at all, and have zero issues attempting this record as a person, but i HIGHLY doubt the MG would make that speed (or anything close) given the constraints of that GTS class. 

So, as we're not [yet] keen to all the rules and caveats of classifications, what other classes could this little 2-seater fit into?  if we're going to do this and attempt to be at all compeditive, i'm thinking we'll have to do heavy mods including frame, suspension, body, and aero... but even if we do that i don't want to get stuck in a class with 911's ~180-200mph with us still trying to get all the juice out of a <2.0L n/asp 4 cyl. 

i just got this link so thought i'd introduce myself to you all.  i appreciate the guys that asked us to contact them about the rules... give us a bit and we will.

regardless of the route we go with this car, i am totally jazzed to coming out there Sept'17 to learn more, see some nice machines, and meet some great people.

cheers,
alan
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Cheers,
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 02:35:17 PM »

"iron turd"..Now THERE is a visual I didn`t need...JB
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 03:49:45 PM »

I don't believe it can run except as a GT or MS car.
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SteveM
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 04:10:47 PM »

Alan:

Welcome to the board, and "In Hoc", Brother.  Before Slim jumps all over you, he likes to see a location included as part of your profile for the page.

Bear with me for a minute - I'm having some visions of that MG as an MS entry... build a tube frame with an extended, streamlined front end (max wheelbase is 130 inches), which should help add stability to a short wheelbase car like an MG...

At that point, the world is your Oyster in terms of engine swaps, engine selection, etc.

I think Johnny Hotnuts still holds the H/GMS (1.5L, Gas Modified Sports) at 165 and some change in his Fiat.

At those smaller engine sizes, there are a lot of engine swap choices, many coming from motorcycles as well as automobiles.

Welcome aboard,

Steve
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 04:26:50 PM »

Alan:

Welcome to the board, and "In Hoc", Brother.  Before Slim jumps all over you, he likes to see a location included as part of your profile for the page.

Bear with me for a minute - I'm having some visions of that MG as an MS entry... build a tube frame with an extended, streamlined front end (max wheelbase is 130 inches), which should help add stability to a short wheelbase car like an MG...

At that point, the world is your Oyster in terms of engine swaps, engine selection, etc.

I think Johnny Hotnuts still holds the H/GMS (1.5L, Gas Modified Sports) at 165 and some change in his Fiat.

At those smaller engine sizes, there are a lot of engine swap choices, many coming from motorcycles as well as automobiles.

Welcome aboard,

Steve

thanks Steve!  location (and pic) added.

what is an "MS" class, and where can i find it's regulations?  and for what it's worth, all these acronyms...
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Cheers,
Alan
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