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Author Topic: Why is the Bloodhound Car using Turbine & Rocket? Why not Rocket only?  (Read 3745 times)
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J79
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« on: May 11, 2016, 01:36:00 PM »

Why are they choosing to use the size and weight of the Turbine and the Rocket for power? Why not Rocket power only? Seems like you could make the car smaller and less complicated if they went with Rocket power only and eliminated the Turbine Engine.

http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/
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"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."
TrickyDicky
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 02:43:44 PM »

The driver understands turbines from his day job. He also is not keen on sitting in front of a large firework.

Which part of Bloodhound is not yet fitted to the car because it is still under development?
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J79
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 06:24:47 PM »

From what I remember from watching one of the Bloodhound videos is that they use the Turbine to 300mph, then turn on the Afterburner and Rocket. You would think that with the weight of the Turbine on top of the Rocket, it would be unstable, as in more stable if the Turbine was removed.
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"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."
kiwi belly tank
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 09:40:15 PM »

What's your background in unlimited LSR jet cars?
  Sid.
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J79
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 10:45:17 PM »

If you are asking me, I've never built or driven one. Just a long time casual interest. A Turbine on top seems top heavy and unnecessarily complicated when a Rocket alone would seem simpler.

Look at Blue Flame or the Budweiser Rocket Car. They seem much simpler than a Turbine Engine.

Does a Turbine powered thrust car want to steer or roll to one direction due to the spinning of the Turbine Engine?

How about you? What's your experience in LSR cars?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 07:21:13 PM by J79 » Logged

"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 02:29:41 PM »

NO
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Ed
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 06:40:29 PM »

Sid, may I?

J79, yes, Kiwi Sid does have SOME rolleyes evil rolleyes evil rolleyes experience with LSR cars.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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J79
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 07:19:55 PM »

NO

Is your comment, "No, a Turbine powered thrust car does not want to steer or roll to one direction due to the spinning of the Turbine Engine?"
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"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 08:37:37 PM »

What is your problem J79. I don't think you have done much research on jet or turbine vehicles. Dead Horse
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Glen
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2016, 09:42:32 PM »

I can't speak for others but when my J-79 reaches 100%, that is 7400 rpm. I actually leave the starting line at about 80 to 90% and within about 1/4 mile I'm
at 100%. There is no feeling of torque roll at all. When you go into afterburner, all it does is dump loads of fuel into the aft area behind the hot section and the rpm's
do not increase, if so it is only few a couple percentage points. All the AB does is increase thrust. IF, for some horrible reason the engine seized, you would get significant
torque roll and that would be a bad event, just as if you were flying it rather than driving it. There is no real reason to seize your engine if you are paying attention to any of the engine
indicators such as EGT, oil temp, oil press, and rpm's.
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Ed
J79
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2016, 10:15:16 PM »

I can't speak for others but when my J-79 reaches 100%, that is 7400 rpm. I actually leave the starting line at about 80 to 90% and within about 1/4 mile I'm
at 100%. There is no feeling of torque roll at all. When you go into afterburner, all it does is dump loads of fuel into the aft area behind the hot section and the rpm's
do not increase, if so it is only few a couple percentage points. All the AB does is increase thrust. IF, for some horrible reason the engine seized, you would get significant
torque roll and that would be a bad event, just as if you were flying it rather than driving it. There is no real reason to seize your engine if you are paying attention to any of the engine
indicators such as EGT, oil temp, oil press, and rpm's.

If you were to stand at the exhaust end and facing forward, which way does the compressor and turbine turn, clockwise or counterclockwise?

I read that Art Arfons had a few high speed tire blowouts on his Green Monster Thrust Powered Turbine Car. Were these tire blowouts due to the torque of the turbine, or due to normal stresses at high speed? 

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:47:55 PM by J79 » Logged

"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."
kiwi belly tank
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2016, 11:42:29 PM »

Sid, may I?

J79, yes, Kiwi Sid does have SOME rolleyes evil rolleyes evil rolleyes experience with LSR cars.

Thank you......thankyouverymuch! grin
  Sid.
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Robin UK
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2016, 02:52:26 AM »

J79 - you are clearly interested in thrust driven vehicles so let me help here in terms of engaging with the people on this forum.

First, most are well aware of the BloodhoundSSC project (even if their primary interest is wheel driven vehicles) so the links you've posted have already been covered and are old news. There is a thread elsewhere where any new stuff from them is referenced.

Second, the question you ask about why they've chosen a mixed power plant design is answered on their own website. Poke around a bit more and you'll find the answer - think it's in one of Andy's updates. As to the simpler jet or rocket designs you mention, well that's the beauty of having rules that encourage a multitude of solutions. There is no right or wrong way, only your way based on the your view of how best to solve the problem of going fast. And the only way of testing the validity of your solution is to build and run the vehicle and beat an existing record. If you hold a record, then that's the right way. Until somebody else comes along and beats it with a different solution.

The rotational effect you mention does exist and it did indeed cause Art some issues because he was a jet car pioneer so the extra forces exerted on wheel bearings, tyres and so on weren't fully understood back then by everybody. But other jet cars ran successfully and by now designers are well aware of it and know how to cater for it - hence Ed's succinct response.

Finally, most people here would use the word Turbine to describe an engine with a drive shaft attached to it. Yes they work on pretty much the same principles as a pure jet engine, but the exhaust gas driven output shaft connected to something makes it a turbine. the Turbinator team hold the current wheel driven record with a turbine engine. Sid knows a bit about this.  cool BloodhoundSSC and its predecessors Thrust2 and ThrustSSC use pure jets so Jet is the description they and most others would use.

Hope this helps.

Robin

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kiwi belly tank
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2016, 10:15:14 AM »

Pull up a chair & a beverage.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2016, 07:26:15 PM »

The Bloodhound project is a bit of a gamble.  It is extremely complicated from a systems engineering viewpoint - with a high C of G compared to track width.  These are obstacles.  The chances of a problem that cannot be overcome during operations in the field are greater.  That can be compensated to some degree by good quality control and thorough engineering.  They cannot be fully eliminated.

The flip side of the gamble is that enough systems work adequately to set a record that will not be surpassed for a long time.  Also, a team goal is to showcase engineering.  The many systems do a good job of that.  It is an admirable effort.
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